Organic certification costs

[New Puritan]

Hello,

I don't want this to turn into a rant about why people don't like the word 'organic' etc., but wondered if anyone who has direct experience of certification bodies can throw some light on this for me. For info, I grow niche crops on 50 acres of rented land, and organic is the market angle I go for, as that's what my customers want. I've no problem with my being organic, and equally have no problem with everyone else who is not, it comes down to supply and demand...

As an organic farmer, I have a choice as to which certification body I use, as listed here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...rol-bodies/approved-uk-organic-control-bodies.

As I'm in England and am not biodynamic, I'm limited to three of them, OF&G, the SA and the Organic Food Federation.

So currently I'm with OF&G. I've been sent my annual renewal form, and they are quoting me £583 + VAT for the annual certification and inspection.

Is it not normal practice in farming to try and shop around for cheaper suppliers?

I contacted the Organic Food Federation, but the guy I spoke with there seemed genuinely perplexed that anyone could want to change certifying body. He said they always work with OF&G anyway, so there wouldn't be much point.

Okay, I thought, they don't want my custom, I'll try the SA. So I emailed them and they have sent me a quote for £583 + VAT. That seems quite a coincidence.

So as much as there at first appears to be some choice, is the organic certification system in England a completely sown up cartel? Or do DEFRA or the EU force them to adopt a particular pricing structure?

 

[Goweresque]

Unfortunately in such a 'market' what could be perfect competition (each provider providing the lowest possible price and all of them being very close to each other) looks identical to the outside to a cartel whereby the participants stitch up the consumer and agree amongst themselves what the 'market price' is going to be. There are high barriers to entry (setting up your own certification body would be expensive and possibly difficult) so the parties are protected from any additional competition to keep them honest. With only 3 participants collusion is reasonably easy to keep secret, or make plausibly deniable, if there were 5 or 6 then there's always the greater likelihood of someone breaking away and/or spilling the beans.

 

[organicguy]

As a SA member I am surprised we are the same price as OF&G. Always used to be more expensive! For what it is worth I have always been with the SA because of all the work they do lobbying and promoting organic farming and also the back up with help from the office.
I guess there is no collusion if you look up what someone else charges and charge the same!

 

[New Puritan]

Thanks for your replies, @Goweresque and @organicguy - those are both fair points.

Just to add, I don't think what they have quoted is unreasonable, after all it's my choice to be going to them in the first place. I just thought that price was a little too 'specific' to be a coincidence.

Thanks again,
NP.

 

[Bootneck]

I was also surprised about the price similarities when enquiring last year. I went with soil association, but feel the price is very expensive. I wonder how difficult it really is to set up a small regional certifying body.

 

[betweenthelines]

Is there a legal definition of "Organic"? Bit like "free range" milk, "low fat" processed food or anything "high welfare"

As far as I'm aware, there isn't and it would be difficult for anyone stop stop you selling your produce as organic-assuming you don't you pesticides, bag fertiliser or antibiotics.

In fact, I believe that the Yeo Valley website actually says they do use antibiotics on ill cows, They just keep that milk out of the "organic" tank while the cow is being treated (as do non-organic farmers) and the cow, once treatment is over, becomes "organic" again

After all, "organic farmers" use teat dip (presumably they use some sort of chemical to clean milking equipment) diesel, oil etc. etc. and other industrially processed raw materials.

Always makes me smile that Devon's big "Organic" business, Riverford Farm sells skim and semi skimmed milk and trucks organic veg all over the country in 44t artics.

 

[Goatherderess]

I believe for food it is illegal to describe anything as organic if it's not registered with a certification body. However, you just have to look on Ebay to see that it is not enforced....organic wild garlic, organic hedgerow fruits etc etc from anyone. Which pee'd me off as I was selling organically certified sloes for a few years!

 

[betweenthelines]

So all the imported "organic" produce is from registered farms?

 

[New Puritan]

Is there a legal definition of "Organic"? Bit like "free range" milk, "low fat" processed food or anything "high welfare"

As far as I'm aware, there isn't and it would be difficult for anyone stop stop you selling your produce as organic-assuming you don't you pesticides, bag fertiliser or antibiotics.

In fact, I believe that the Yeo Valley website actually says they do use antibiotics on ill cows, They just keep that milk out of the "organic" tank while the cow is being treated (as do non-organic farmers) and the cow, once treatment is over, becomes "organic" again

After all, "organic farmers" use teat dip (presumably they use some sort of chemical to clean milking equipment) diesel, oil etc. etc. and other industrially processed raw materials.

Always makes me smile that Devon's big "Organic" business, Riverford Farm sells skim and semi skimmed milk and trucks organic veg all over the country in 44t artics.

Yep there is - it's from an EC directive of some sort, and then administered by DEFRA in the UK. But I think it goes beyond that in any case, is it IFOAM (?) which are an international organisation that come up with the standards.

 

[New Puritan]

So all the imported "organic" produce is from registered farms?

Theoretically yes. I think as with many international standards and rules, the north western Europeans are more zealous in enforcing it than many others. I don't want to cast aspersions, but I would be surprised if the inspections were as rigorous in some countries that are less developed.

 

[betweenthelines]

Just looked at the Defra definition.

IMO saying that only organisations like Soil Assn. can grant "organic" status is a restrictive trade practice, otherwise shyte like "almond milk" could not use the term "milk" and you couldn't have meat free "sausages"

All this crap (misnaming of products, self appointed organisations like Soil Assn, RSPCA granting bogus "certification" needs to be stamped out.

Don't get me started on RSPCA staff calling themselves "Inspector" either

 

[New Puritan]

Hmm, like I said in posts #1 and #4, I'm organic through my own choice (as that's what my customers want, and it's what I want to do); and personally I'm happy for the term 'organic', in this specific context, to have a legal definition. Otherwise there'd be all manner of chancers bending the rules all over the place with all sorts of b0ll0cks undercutting me.

 

[New Puritan]

I believe for food it is illegal to describe anything as organic if it's not registered with a certification body. However, you just have to look on Ebay to see that it is not enforced....organic wild garlic, organic hedgerow fruits etc etc from anyone. Which pee'd me off as I was selling organically certified sloes for a few years!

You could, if you could be bothered, contact the trading standards department of the local council for wherever these ebay traders are selling from, and complain to them about the 'organic' hedgerow products. You'd probably get some guff back about austerity meaning they can't investigate every complaint etc. etc., but someone somewhere might take notice.

 

[PostHarvest]

Its a pity you don't farm in Ukraine. When I worked there Organic or any other certification you needed cost $20 and a couple of bottles of Vodka. Seriously though I visited a ceritificated organic farm in Western Ukraine that had stockpiles of spray so big we couldn't count the drums. But they sold organic grains to Eu breakfast food manufacturers.

 

[New Puritan]

@PostHarvest - as per my post #10.

 

[organicguy]

So all the imported "organic" produce is from registered farms?

yes

 

[Tim W]

Been organic certified for 25+ years (until this year) and dealt with SA & OF&G ---both do a decent job
If you are selling direct then i think SA has better customer recognition

Pricing ----for me OF&G have always quoted a bit cheaper but i have always run with SA because of the promotional work they do

 

[90hp farming]

not organic here but definitely trying to minimise artificial inputs and respect the environment.

ref. certification fees. It seems to a little perverse that the organic farmers have to pay for a scheme to farm in a natural manner, whilst us chemical boys can farm `for free`.............

 

[betweenthelines]

not organic here but definitely trying to minimise artificial inputs and respect the environment.

ref. certification fees. It seems to a little perverse that the organic farmers have to pay for a scheme to farm in a natural manner, whilst us chemical boys can farm `for free`.............

Everything "organic" is a con trick

21st Century version of the King's new cloths

 

[Widgetone]

Its a pity you don't farm in Ukraine. When I worked there Organic or any other certification you needed cost $20 and a couple of bottles of Vodka. Seriously though I visited a ceritificated organic farm in Western Ukraine that had stockpiles of spray so big we couldn't count the drums. But they sold organic grains to Eu breakfast food manufacturers.

Not so certain of this, and there are some fraudsters out there, but a popular way of knocking Organic. Labs can find chemical contamination down to minute levels, only takes a trace and you're found out.