Outwintering cattle on herbal leys

[Poorbuthappy]

Do not put Perun in a 4-5 year grazing ley an expect it to be there in year 5.

Lucerne and red clover? WTF? It's not gonna stick being pounded in the winter.

You'd be surprised whst red clover will stick.

 

[ollie989898]

Single strand poly wire is 15p per metre, including plastic posts.

Including labour and wooden corner posts and energiser I reckon you could do the lot for less than £1/m

Wooden posts and high tensile steel wire, say two strands, plastic insulators, be £1/metre or less surely?

 

[ollie989898]

You'd be surprised whst red clover will stick.

It won't live 5 years and there will be some left after a couple of wet winters of grazing but enough to call it a crop? Be long gone.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

It won't live 5 years and there will be some left after a couple of wet winters of grazing but enough to call it a crop? Be long gone.

Red clover overseeds better than most things if you want to top it up
And we hope to have a new variety coming in from NZ for nect year thats a lot more persistent

 

[Poorbuthappy]

It won't live 5 years and there will be some left after a couple of wet winters of grazing but enough to call it a crop? Be long gone.

Well certainly wasn't long gone here after a couple of wet winter's grazing with sheep

 

[ollie989898]

View attachment 916593
Well certainly wasn't long gone here after a couple of wet winter's grazing with sheep

You can graze it fine, certainly a lot easier with sheep and on kind land. But mob stock over winter on it? I can see that going wrong.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Wooden posts and high tensile steel wire, say two strands, plastic insulators, be £1/metre or less surely?

single stand poly wire is 5p/m.

poly stakes are £1.05 each, need 1 per 10m.

mains energiser £700.

machine round wooden posts (for corners and strainers) £1.73 each.

materials likely to be less than 30p/m. Labour (including paddock planning) makes up rest of fence cost. Real expense would be water infrastructure.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Do not put Perun in a 4-5 year grazing ley an expect it to be there in year 5.

Lucerne and red clover? WTF? It's not gonna stick being pounded in the winter.

Proper high-density grazing is actually a helluva lot kinder on plants than "parked all over it" grazing.

I was surprised, it isn't actually the numbers or the amount of abuse, but "time" that does the harm.

We have 90-something cattle on about ¼ of an acre and they aren't there long enough to hurt plants, but if I put them on 6 acre for 6 days they would be.

Great for seed sellers but not for ecosystems

 

[ImLost]

Proper high-density grazing is actually a helluva lot kinder on plants than "parked all over it" grazing.

I was surprised, it isn't actually the numbers or the amount of abuse, but "time" that does the harm.

We have 90-something cattle on about ¼ of an acre and they aren't there long enough to hurt plants, but if I put them on 6 acre for 6 days they would be.

Great for seed sellers but not for ecosystems

24 hour moves?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

24 hour moves?

It's growing too quickly now for 24hr shifts - IMO.

This is only old permanent pasture but still springing up too quicky to risk overgrazing and limiting ongoing growth. (hours behind the mob)

 

[ImLost]

Would that figure of 90 per 1/4 acre translate to the same hd/acre with a larger mob? If that makes any sense?!

For example 300 head divided by 90 (your existing group size) times by 0.25 of an acre (the current area you have them running on) equals 0.8333. So 300 head on 0.8 acres.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Would that figure of 90 per 1/4 acre translate to the same hd/acre with a larger mob? If that makes any sense?!

For example 300 head divided by 90 (your existing group size) times by 0.25 of an acre (the current area you have them running on) equals 0.8333. So 300 head on 0.8 acres.

Sure does.
Or you can vary the time, it's less critical over winter (as per the OP) from a plant perspective because:
1. They're short term plants, disposable heroes if you like
2. Regrowth will be slow and so overgrazing the plant will be days, not hours

but.. it's more critical from a "land health" point of view because stock may be hungrier and soil will be colder and wetter.
Poaching is more likely, it will be guaranteed if you leave them to wander around with no fresh feed for long

Hence the "mob them up and move them around" is kinder on the soil than "give them a whole heap at once and get comfy on the couch" regime - IYSWIM?

Many people are scared off high stock density but it's just a time thing.... having tried it, I'm more scared of low stock density and long graze periods.

That's when bad stuff happens: stock poking out, poaching, overgrazing, poor stock performance etc

 

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[Samcowman]

It's growing too quickly now for 24hr shifts - IMO.
View attachment 916667
This is only old permanent pasture but still springing up too quicky to risk overgrazing and limiting ongoing growth. (hours behind the mob)

12 hour shifts it is then. Or are you going even more than that?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

12 hour shifts it is then. Or are you going even more than that?

About 2 hours over the long weekend! it's all swings and roundabouts Sam.

The main point of me posting that picture is to emphasise that "we just do 4 day breaks" is good for farmer's workload but maybe not good for plants or stock performance.
I don't want to eat 3-day old scraps and neither do my livestock.

 

[unlacedgecko]

About 2 hours over the long weekend! it's all swings and roundabouts Sam.

The main point of me posting that picture is to emphasise that "we just do 4 day breaks" is good for farmer's workload but maybe not good for plants or stock performance.
I don't want to eat 3-day old scraps and neither do my livestock.

My Mrs stew always tastes better the next day though?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

My Mrs stew always tastes better the next day though?

If you crapped in the pot and got in there with your workboots it may not

 

[Rob Garrett]

View attachment 916593
Well certainly wasn't long gone here after a couple of wet winter's grazing with sheep

What variety red clover is that?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

What variety red clover is that?

Not sure I'm afraid. That was 2011, on a rented farm that I no longer take.

 

[dogjon]

Red clover overseeds better than most things if you want to top it up
And we hope to have a new variety coming in from NZ for nect year thats a lot more persistent

What's the name of the variety you're getting from NZ that is supposed to be more persistant?