Outwintering in the floods

[Estate fencing.]

But you've already taken the silage off in June, so you've got it, or if you've grazed it, where do you put them when you shut it up? I'd have thought the higher stocking rate and grazing grass when it has a much higher feed value must give a better return.

I don’t understand that either. Grass that was cut in June had had lambs finishing on, ewes tupping on and now nice regrowth for ewes and lambs for a month before shutting up again. If we grazed it now it wouldn’t be any used for that early bite of grass.

 

[digger64]

I don’t understand that either. Grass that was cut in June had had lambs finishing on, ewes tupping on and now nice regrowth for ewes and lambs for a month before shutting up again. If we grazed it now it wouldn’t be any used for that early bite of grass.

I think your overthinking it , comes down to stocking rate versus infrastructure a £ output and your actual farm /enterprises .
We can in theory run ewes on grass all year(no feed ) but that relies on making bulky 1 cut haylage for our cows in june/july but this land is grazed by ewes in blocks from 1st of nov till mid april or hogs(after roots) latter still .
This is unfenced/ unwatered land that I wouldnt consider grazing summertime . Doing multi cuts on this land would only work/be expensive in wet years and weaned lambs would be hard work in say august , but if we get summer drought it still works -winter flooding(river levels ) is an issue though .

 

[Estate fencing.]

I think your overthinking it , comes down to stocking rate versus infrastructure a £ output and your actual farm /enterprises .
We can in theory run ewes on grass all year(no feed ) but that relies on making bulky 1 cut haylage for our cows in june/july but this land is grazed by ewes in blocks from 1st of nov till mid april or hogs(after roots) latter still .
This is unfenced/ unwatered land that I wouldnt consider grazing summertime . Doing multi cuts on this land would only work/be expensive in wet years and weaned lambs would be hard work in say august , but if we get summer drought it still works -winter flooding(river levels ) is an issue though .

You must have either an enormous area or not many sheep. 1200 ewes would have 400 acres to nothing buy Christmas here then have to start feeding.

 

[Gulli]

But you've already taken the silage off in June, so you've got it, or if you've grazed it, where do you put them when you shut it up? I'd have thought the higher stocking rate and grazing grass when it has a much higher feed value must give a better return.

Just put them in a different field same as you would when you shut it up for cutting. I don't know if theres ever been costings done for comparison but I'd say there's probably not a lot in it. I'd question the higher feed value long term, slightly different as it's not sheep but I've had cattle doing 1kg/day on grass not grazed for 6 months this winter. Think there's more to it than short grass= good grass

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Just put them in a different field same as you would when you shut it up for cutting. I don't know if theres ever been costings done for comparison but I'd say there's probably not a lot in it. I'd question the higher feed value long term, slightly different as it's not sheep but I've had cattle doing 1kg/day on grass not grazed for 6 months this winter. Think there's more to it than short grass= good grass

Short grass = no grass very quickly

Likewise our cattle have averaged 1.1 - 1.2 kg since they were in the yards mid-august for a drench, the heifers are 50-60kg ahead of target and the steers more like 80kg up

Costings are interesting, we don't have a tractor so how else am I gonna feed 1900 cattle over winter? Bags of nuts in the boot of my car?

 

[Gulli]

Short grass = no grass very quickly

Likewise our cattle have averaged 1.1 - 1.2 kg since they were in the yards mid-august for a drench, the heifers are 50-60kg ahead of target and the steers more like 80kg up

Costings are interesting, we don't have a tractor so how else am I gonna feed 1900 cattle over winter? Bags of nuts in the boot of my car?

You could feed in situ bales but you still have contracting costs associated with that.

I'm not saying it's the only way, we are a mix of many systems here due to farming heavy clay soils that like to hold water. Probably house my ewes a week or so earlier than normal for lambing this year.

Would be nice to have everything out year round but it's a big system change to make that happen and what we currently do works for us.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Today.
2/3 of ours is like that in Winter to a greater or lessor degree

but makes good hay and silage in Summer.

nothing more than common sense really, how your farm it, unless youre a townie.

 

[digger64]

You must have either an enormous area or not many sheep. 1200 ewes would have 400 acres to nothing buy Christmas here then have to start feeding.

Remember we have got 3-4 months growth on those fields at the start standing in november , the ungrazed ones have new growth on them now . We have in the past put N on in sept to build more cover- now put muck on in august on the higher freedraining ones instead - its cheaper/more reliable than stubble turnips etc .
I think it works out at about 3-4 to an acre over winter excluding any hoggets .
And I have got 4-500 bales of dry cow feed . 2nd cut silage does work some years (its dry here though ) but at say 2.5- 3 bales to the acre its cheaper to buy it and graze the fields .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

You could feed in situ bales but you still have contracting costs associated with that.

I'm not saying it's the only way, we are a mix of many systems here due to farming heavy clay soils that like to hold water. Probably house my ewes a week or so earlier than normal for lambing this year.

Would be nice to have everything out year round but it's a big system change to make that happen and what we currently do works for us.

Yes not saying it would be an absolute disaster to cut and bale here, but it would be an absolute disaster. We might get 4-6 inches over 9 months and we might get 2, so it really could bite - and then we'd have overimpact issues in the wet season around the bales.

Great way to cut forage production by ⅔ and add complication, I'm all for others doing it though

 

[Farmer Keith]

We do both cutting and deferred grazing here relatively successfully here. Mixed farm dairy, sheep and beef. 125 acres ish mown for first cut late May which comes back to the yard to feed dairy cows, about 100 acres cut second cut mid July for bales which are carted onto around 25 acres that’s been allocated for deferred grazing in winter and lined along the fence. Graze the 25 acres off with a mob of cattle mid august then shut the gate, set the bales out and leave it to grow to hopefully a 3500-4000 cover. Fatten the lambs on all of the other aftermaths. Bale graze the 25 acres with 150-200 stores, dairy replacements and dry cows over winter then plough out and sow spring barley in April and reseed the following autumn. Repeat the operation on a different 25 acres the following year.

Under this system we keep wintering costs down, are building fantastic soils by bale grazing once every 5 ish years and are keeping leys young and productive.

I think the biggest issue with buying all forage in and pushing the summer stocking rate is you’re inevitably creating an awfully long winter for yourself, unless you can half your stocking rate in September as grass growth rates crash you’ve got far too many mouths to feed and will probably eat up a lot of the gains made by feeding the grass in summer.

One more thing to bear in mind is if you ever see a fresh grass sample taken in January off the deferred grass it would surprise you. It’s better feed than any bale of silage will ever be.

 

[Gulli]

We do both cutting and deferred grazing here relatively successfully here. Mixed farm dairy, sheep and beef. 125 acres ish mown for first cut late May which comes back to the yard to feed dairy cows, about 100 acres cut second cut mid July for bales which are carted onto around 25 acres that’s been allocated for deferred grazing in winter and lined along the fence. Graze the 25 acres off with a mob of cattle mid august then shut the gate, set the bales out and leave it to grow to hopefully a 3500-4000 cover. Fatten the lambs on all of the other aftermaths. Bale graze the 25 acres with 150-200 stores, dairy replacements and dry cows over winter then plough out and sow spring barley in April and reseed the following autumn. Repeat the operation on a different 25 acres the following year.

Under this system we keep wintering costs down, are building fantastic soils by bale grazing once every 5 ish years and are keeping leys young and productive.

I think the biggest issue with buying all forage in and pushing the summer stocking rate is you’re inevitably creating an awfully long winter for yourself, unless you can half your stocking rate in September as grass growth rates crash you’ve got far too many mouths to feed and will probably eat up a lot of the gains made by feeding the grass in summer.

One more thing to bear in mind is if you ever see a fresh grass sample taken in January off the deferred grass it would surprise you. It’s better feed than any bale of silage will ever be.

That works alright if you have an arable rotation to fit it in to. Being a small all grass farm.means we can't afford to plough out grass every year.

 

[Farmer Keith]

That works alright if you have an arable rotation to fit it in to. Being a small all grass farm.means we can't afford to plough out grass every year.

We’re stocked accordingly, it means we’re self sufficient in straw and have a little barley to feed to YS and ewes pre lambing. We’re certainly not in prime arable country but it acts as a nice break crop to clean up broadleafed weeds etc.

 

[JP1]

Alan Collett

Anyone fancy a go at the new sport of turnip bobbing

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