How common is the problem out there ? Most of his other lambs look fine. Is it a recessive thing ?
Overshot / undershot mouths
- Thread starter Green farmer
- Start date
How common is the problem out there ? Most of his other lambs look fine. Is it a recessive thing ?
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
we were getting a few for years
culled out any ewes with it and harder on rams
we are low in Ca here and had bone probs with legs etc some of the jaw growth i think is related to that as well
culled out any ewes with it and harder on rams
we are low in Ca here and had bone probs with legs etc some of the jaw growth i think is related to that as well
reverand
Member
- Location
- East lancs hills
I would say most flocks will have one or two a year. Get them culled as lambs before it turns in to a bigger problem
- Location
- West Wales
We had a few which we hadn't noticed until the day of slaughter when taggingand they went pre 16 week old. I've got 1 lamb that is slow doing and has cobalt issues aswell as undershot :/
I've got 4 yearlings which are undershot slightly which were picked for keeping before I'd moved back here and I noticed them the other day, if they throw undershot lambs they'll be gone. They are all really good condition so isn't much of a problem for them?
I've got 4 yearlings which are undershot slightly which were picked for keeping before I'd moved back here and I noticed them the other day, if they throw undershot lambs they'll be gone. They are all really good condition so isn't much of a problem for them?
All the lambs I spotted today are out of one ram in particular, so at least that's something. Unfortunately have some of his daughters in the flock, so I'll go through the them and see if any stand out. You can never really take your eye of the ball with sheep really, can you
reverand
Member
- Location
- East lancs hills
I don't know how experienced you are but just feel inside their mouths. Their teeth at the bottom should be slightly back of the pad at the top.
Only today I through out a smart gimmer as its mouth was what I would consider to far back. You will get slight variation. Check your tups mouth
Only today I through out a smart gimmer as its mouth was what I would consider to far back. You will get slight variation. Check your tups mouth
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
IME it's not that easy, and can sometimes be just 'one of those things', rather than anything genetic.
About 12 years ago, I had a December born lamb that was 'pig jawed' (not just slightly undershot). He was obviously earmarked to cull at Easter, but was one hell of a carcass. I ended up letting a family relative have him for killing money, and we all gave him lots of leg pulling afterwards. He kept him for a couple of years, covering his flock of mild ewes (sourced from someone's culls), but never had a single undershot lamb born.
However, if you've got several by one ram, I'd get him gone.
About 12 years ago, I had a December born lamb that was 'pig jawed' (not just slightly undershot). He was obviously earmarked to cull at Easter, but was one hell of a carcass. I ended up letting a family relative have him for killing money, and we all gave him lots of leg pulling afterwards. He kept him for a couple of years, covering his flock of mild ewes (sourced from someone's culls), but never had a single undershot lamb born.
However, if you've got several by one ram, I'd get him gone.
Could it be a recessive thing were the ewes and rams have to have the same recessive gene for it to show up in lambs? If the undershot ram @neilo sold was used and didnt throw any undershot lambs maybe there werent any recessive indershot gene ewes in that flock? Maybe the op ram has the recessive gene and only a few of the ewes do so it doest show up in all the lambs. Just a thought im no geneticist but i think thats how recessive genes work
reverand
Member
- Location
- East lancs hills
IMO it is something to cull for. You are not doing yourself any favours keeping bad mouths.
His a ram that was used for breeding replacements, so definitely has to go. Hard enough to improve the flock without something like this paddling in the opposite way.
Pig jaws are definitely genetic. The lambs are born with them, they don’t develop.
A breeder sold an ewe for good money and her mouth was back. He had been debating whether to take her to the sale. Afterwards he told anybody that would listen “I knew she was a touch back you see, but everybody I spoke to in the sale said ‘that’s better than the other way’”
To which my response was “f**king rubbish, who do you think you are kidding?”
Overshot mouths can also be genetic but far more prevalent as a result of nutrition. Vitamin deficiency weakens the jaw bone elongating it. That’s why the breeders saw the jaw being back less of an issue as heavy feeding can make it go away, whilst it gives problems for Sheep with teeth which are right or a bit forward anyway.
I’d cull the ram but keep those lamb’s mothers. Try to split those ewes between your other rams to see if you can tease out any others with the gene.
A breeder sold an ewe for good money and her mouth was back. He had been debating whether to take her to the sale. Afterwards he told anybody that would listen “I knew she was a touch back you see, but everybody I spoke to in the sale said ‘that’s better than the other way’”
To which my response was “f**king rubbish, who do you think you are kidding?”
Overshot mouths can also be genetic but far more prevalent as a result of nutrition. Vitamin deficiency weakens the jaw bone elongating it. That’s why the breeders saw the jaw being back less of an issue as heavy feeding can make it go away, whilst it gives problems for Sheep with teeth which are right or a bit forward anyway.
I’d cull the ram but keep those lamb’s mothers. Try to split those ewes between your other rams to see if you can tease out any others with the gene.
Thing about sheep is takes about a year or two of breeding replacements to see if a ram is any good, until his daughters are at least hoggets. Then if you find anything, takes several more years to breed it out. Slow process unfortunately.
Wouldnt be mearly as much fun as it is if it was easy
Inbreeding