Pay farmers to cut pollution?

[holwellcourtfarm]

Piece in today's Times:

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

In case link doesn't work:

FWIW, my thoughts are that farms DO need to cut water pollution. If the water industry finally sort their act out then farming will rightly become the next target.

Am I wrong?

@Abi Kay

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

 

[vantage]

Piece in today's Times:

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

In case link doesn't work:

View attachment 1171224View attachment 1171225

FWIW, my thoughts are that farms DO need to cut water pollution. If the water industry finally sort their act out then farming will rightly become the next target.

Am I wrong?

@Abi Kay

Your last sentence won’t happen anytime soon, the water companies will need a generation and 10s of billions of pounds to sort the issue of rainwater mixing with sewerage.
Yes some farms have issues, but in the main farmers regard slurry and muck as valuable nutrients not to be wasted.

 

[Werzle]

Makes me the laugh the fuss they make about livestock drinking from rivers etc, its probably only for 6mths of the year and it is the most natural of things. Watch wildlife programs from africa you never hear them say "ooh that watering hole wants fencing off" because its a natural thing and it temes with wildlife helped by the animals using it. They want to stop a natural thing but happy to keep diverting storm and sewage drains into watercourses.

Much rather see a natural scene of livestock cooling off in a river than i would looking at miles of barbed wire and solar pumps humming and glinting along every riverside field

 

[DaveGrohl]

View attachment 1171227

So it is Leigh Day? No surprises there then.

 

[DrWazzock]

The thing that would reduce run off pollution here is reversion to permanent pasture with low stocking rates and bringing them indoors in winter. It’s not incentivised in any simple way as it runs contrary to the methane argument for one thing. It’s a complete muddle really. We are being incentivised to put in options that often need reestablishing every two years or even annually. That moved soil, leaves the surface fragile and wastes a lot of resource really.
The best thing here would be a long term herbal ley with watercourses well fenced off. I’m working on it.

 

[DrWazzock]

But is it getting to stage where it would be better to stay in bed all day and wait for the State to feed you and change your pants, such is the hostility in the U.K. now to almost any kind of enterprise, especially with the constant rise of the litigation industry.

 

[som farmer]

got a grant to fence our stream out, in 2001.

currently getting grants off wessex water, very similar to SFI, so they can claim that they are 'doing something' to offset phosphate pollution.

was shown some pictures this week, of cows standing in 6ins of water, in the cubicle shed, beds were dry. EA 'investigated them' following reports of slurry in the river. Decided it was down to flooding, and not a 'breach', but sent them the bill for the 'investigation'.

most farmers are pretty sensible, and pollution is minor, some are not though, and perhaps those are used, to take the focus away, from water boards releasing raw sewage into rivers.

it is a cheaper solution, the cost to the water companies, to upgrade their treatment plants, is huge, and the consumer will carry the cost of that, unpopular move ? The idea they should use past profits, to upgrade, is laughable

 

[DrWazzock]

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This kind of thing enrages me TBH : a firm of solicitors with nothing better to do than chase hard working folk who’ve done their best to create employment and wealth while providing affordable food for the nation.
The government under Rishi Sunak says it has our backs. Well I really don’t think it does when this kind of legal action is even being contemplated. The continual persecution of firms and businesses by a legal so called profession that has become ever more parasitic needs calling out and stamping on at the highest level if we are to avoid the kind of economic downward spiral of high cost and risk aversion that is already besetting our economy.

 

[onesiedale]

We are being incentivised to put in options that often need reestablishing every two years or even annually. That moved soil, leaves the surface fragile and wastes a lot of resource really

had exactly that conversation with someone working for NE yesterday. Their thinking being that Herbal Leys are the perfect answer for dairy farms to reduce diffuse pollution in the Peak District.
When I said why not encourage PP, she responded by saying that dairy farmers want something more productive.
If only they understood the true value of PP, then they may realise that livestock in and on the landscape are worth investing in for the public goods that they provide.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Yes some farms have issues, but in the main farmers regard slurry and muck as valuable nutrients not to be wasted.

Muck, maybe.

I see far too many reports of people spreading slurry in inappropriate conditions, on land sloping to watercourses &/or at far too high application rates because they can't store any more. We can debate the whys and wherefores of that but it's clearly damaging to soil and watercourse health.

I've also personally seen FAR too much soil loss into rivers from both arable and grassland soils.

Make no mistake, at some point the focus will shift to farming.

 

[serf]

But is it getting to stage where it would be better to stay in bed all day and wait for the State to feed you and change your pants, such is the hostility in the U.K. now to almost any kind of enterprise, especially with the constant rise of the litigation industry.

Would delivering a pint of Guinness every half hour to your bedside table come into the remit too
If so I'm in ...

 

[glow worm]

Whilst any industry has a duty to not pollute waterways it makes me MAD that they are always picking on farmers whilst regularily showing footage of the water industry LEGALLY discharging sewage into rivers and the sea. If that was a farmer doing that, they would be overun with officials and the press. Talk about one rule for us and its ok for them.

 

[Kidds]

I see far too many reports of people spreading slurry in inappropriate conditions, on land sloping to watercourses &/or at far too high application rates because they can't store any more.

Seems to be the default around here

 

[vantage]

Muck, maybe.

I see far too many reports of people spreading slurry in inappropriate conditions, on land sloping to watercourses &/or at far too high application rates because they can't store any more. We can debate the whys and wherefores of that but it's clearly damaging to soil and watercourse health.

I've also personally seen FAR too much soil loss into rivers from both arable and grassland soils.

Make no mistake, at some point the focus will shift to farming.

It’s the water that’s the problem, take steps to alleviate that and the problem ceases to exist.

 

[bluebell]

Rubbish, here as ive said time and time again? Same in many parts of the UK, the infrustructure to cope with sewage, fresh water, electric, is now way way under capacity for the currant population and it still grows/builds thousands more new houses to discharge the sewage into this system? We have here a classic example. A mains sewage system, with manhole covers, that i remember as children been installed mid 1970s, it cuts through farmland and on my section runs ajacent to the river crouch, up to about 20 odd years ago, the manhole covers in my grazing fields never used to overflow out, but now, every time we have heavy rain the rainwater enters the system, comes up from 6 ft down and flows/pours out, and thus into the river? Common sense tells me two things, one it will only get worse and worse as more new homes join on to it, and two theres no real answer other than put another complete new system in at the cost of many millions?

 

[som farmer]

Muck, maybe.

I see far too many reports of people spreading slurry in inappropriate conditions, on land sloping to watercourses &/or at far too high application rates because they can't store any more. We can debate the whys and wherefores of that but it's clearly damaging to soil and watercourse health.

I've also personally seen FAR too much soil loss into rivers from both arable and grassland soils.

Make no mistake, at some point the focus will shift to farming.

we are guilty for slurry, it has to go out 1

we have 2 ponds, filled by drains/fields150 acres, 90% is grass, yet when it rains heavily, both ponds are dirt brown colour.

they are picking up a lot of soil, the 10% arable, is right at the top end of catchment, and flat.
Drains are running a lot of clean water, so that soil is coming from grass ground.

and nothing we can do to stop it, all those nutrients lost

but its the wettest winter l can recall.

as to legally discharged sewage, apart from if the water boards were forced to upgrade, it would cost billions £, and who would pick up the bill ?The general public, either through higher bill, or tax.

much easier/cheaper to blame farmers. Phosphates are a big problem on the somerset levels, and wessex are trying to look as if they are doing 'something', We have been paid £61 acre, to establish green cover after maize, suits us.

and fields we cannot get into herbal leys, or b-all else, under SFI, because of historic features, comes under HEFER and Shine, (don't ask), we can through wessex, if coming out of an arable crop, just sow in Aug, after harvest. £141 ac. And just to add, a lot of those fields are in herbal leys already, SFI says no, in case it gets accused of damaging 'remains' with deep rooting herbs.
and all have been repeatedly cultivated for centuries ............................

one thing l am pleased about, son is doing all the research for it, l might have said feck it !

and l think a lot of farmers will do the same.

 

[DrWazzock]

we are guilty for slurry, it has to go out 1

we have 2 ponds, filled by drains/fields150 acres, 90% is grass, yet when it rains heavily, both ponds are dirt brown colour.

they are picking up a lot of soil, the 10% arable, is right at the top end of catchment, and flat.
Drains are running a lot of clean water, so that soil is coming from grass ground.

and nothing we can do to stop it, all those nutrients lost

but its the wettest winter l can recall.

as to legally discharged sewage, apart from if the water boards were forced to upgrade, it would cost billions £, and who would pick up the bill ?The general public, either through higher bill, or tax.

much easier/cheaper to blame farmers. Phosphates are a big problem on the somerset levels, and wessex are trying to look as if they are doing 'something', We have been paid £61 acre, to establish green cover after maize, suits us.

and fields we cannot get into herbal leys, or b-all else, under SFI, because of historic features, comes under HEFER and Shine, (don't ask), we can through wessex, if coming out of an arable crop, just sow in Aug, after harvest. £141 ac. And just to add, a lot of those fields are in herbal leys already, SFI says no, in case it gets accused of damaging 'remains' with deep rooting herbs.
and all have been repeatedly cultivated for centuries ............................

one thing l am pleased about, son is doing all the research for it, l might have said feck it !

and l think a lot of farmers will do the same.

The deference to archaeology boils my pee., The potential of thousands of acres wasted potential just in case Tony Robinson and Time Team might show up one day and find half a rusty bucket handle. We’ve got our priorities all wrong.

 

[DrWazzock]

There’s a village upstream of us. Just about every septic tank outflow is tapped into the roadside drain. The roadside drain feeds into one of our watercourses via a 4” pipe. That pipe has become the de facto sewer for the village. You can see bits of bog roll and worse emerging from it at times. Recently the pipe became blocked by roots and the sewerage is wellling up and running across our grass fieid. There’s a 30m swathe of lush green grass being fed by it. We are in an NVZ and catchment sensitive farming area. They keep examining our phosphate records (we haven’t applied any for a good few years) but if you mention the semi treated sewerage discharge into the watercourse nobody wants to know. It’s too difficult, too unpopular to fix and actually is it really doing massive harm. There are fish in the watercourse and a massive amount of watercress that kind of processes whatever is in the effluent but it keeps all these clipboards busy “monitoring it” like they’ve been monitoring it for 40 years. If they stopped monitoring what would happen? Nothing. Nothing at all. It’s a non story. We don’t need, want or feel entitled to go swimming in it. We aren’t particularly bothered that it’s not pure as pure can be. That seems to be yet another of these urban designer countryside types obsessions.

 

[DrWazzock]

And what about the watercourses here that aren’t fed by the sewer? Well they are contaminated by dangerous amounts of iron oxides. Shock horror. Where does it come from? From natural seams of iron ore in the ground. It’s just how it is. The ethereal concept of clean pure benign nature is just that : an ethereal concept. We try our best, we do what we can but even if we left the land completely it still wouldn’t be perfect. It’s as good as it gets when you are homing and feeding 80 million. Get used to it.