Plantain in herbal leys - pest?

[Troward]

We planted some herbal leys 2 years ago....like a lot

I was keener on plantain than chicory as I think it will survive shorter rotations with sheep better....plantain had been looking very healthy this March...then spotted a lot of holes appearing across the plantain leaves, looking similar to flea beetle on brassicas. Didn't have time to take any photos as before I knew it, all the plantain disappeared

Does flea beetle or an equivolent pest attack Plantain? Sadly I don't think for us it's worth including in mixes if so

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I have no problem establishing Chicory here it grows if I drop seed on hard Gateways, plantain takes a little longer to get established , can't think of any pests that would attack either , wild Plantain grows rampant on the roadside
It does not like cold wet land though ,

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I have noticed the wild plantain gradually become more prevalent in the pastures in recent years.

 

[Troward]

I have no problem establishing Chicory here it grows if I drop seed on hard Gateways, plantain takes a little longer to get established , can't think of any pests that would attack either , wild Plantain grows rampant on the roadside
It does not like cold wet land though ,

It had established well, despite us being heavy, wet ground. It had also happily sat there since we planted and been grazed quite a few times....it definitely looked like a pest of some description.

Chicory doing well in the same field.

 

[Troward]

I have noticed the wild plantain gradually become more prevalent in the pastures in recent years.

We get quite a bit more broad leaf plantain naturally growing, I always associate it with compacted spots though I'm not sure if that's just me. This was whatever plantain Germinal put in their gs4 mix (it doesn't say on the website which variety it is).

 

[Derrick Hughes]

It had established well, despite us being heavy, wet ground. It had also happily sat there since we planted and been grazed quite a few times....it definitely looked like a pest of some description.

Chicory doing well in the same field.

It will establish but it's it's mainly a drier ground plant so won't last

 

[Troward]

It will establish but it's it's mainly a drier ground plant so won't last

Maybe we'll try it again on some drier ground then. The way it faded definitely looked like flea beetle or something similar though, so I'd be interested if anyone has a similar experience.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Maybe we'll try it again on some drier ground then. The way it faded definitely looked like flea beetle or something similar though, so I'd be interested if anyone has a similar experience.

Have you tried overseeding it
I have a lot more success overseeding Chicory Plantain and Clovermixes than I do with grass , especially Red Clover

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I have noticed the red clover and plantain (and a bit of yarrow too) have spread with the introduction of rotational grazing

 

[Troward]

I have noticed the red clover and plantain (and a bit of yarrow too) have spread with the introduction of rotational grazing

I think I've noticed that with the red clover too

 

[Troward]

Have you tried overseeding it
I have a lot more success overseeding Chicory Plantain and Clovermixes than I do with grass , especially Red Clover

I haven't as wouldn't normally like overseeding, but we have some quite open swards on the drier block that we're considering trying it in

 

[Agrivator]

It used to be called rib grass, and was much valued. But I think it might grow best in the presence of a particular soul fungus, which could explain why it is often not very persistent.

Dandelions on the other hand are very persistent, reseed themselves, and in second cut silage or hay produce leaves as big as chicory. - much to the dismay of seedsmen. And who could collect the seeds anyway!!!!!!!

 

[Troward]

It used to be called rib grass, and was much valued. But I think it might grow best in the presence of a particular soul fungus, which could explain why it is often not very persistent.

Dandelions on the other hand are very persistent, reseed themselves, and in second cut silage or hay produce leaves as big as chicory. - much to the dismay of seedsmen. And who could collect the seeds anyway!!!!!!!

I'd known it as ribgrass before too...after planting it, I'm still disappointed we didn't get any cooking bananas

 

[neilo]

It used to be called rib grass, and was much valued. But I think it might grow best in the presence of a particular soul fungus, which could explain why it is often not very persistent.

Dandelions on the other hand are very persistent, reseed themselves, and in second cut silage or hay produce leaves as big as chicory. - much to the dismay of seedsmen. And who could collect the seeds anyway!!!!!!!

I’m never too upset about a few dandelions in pasture, as they’re quickly grazed. I’ve never seen dandelion leaves as big as those of commercial plantain varieties though, only wild ones, which are a very different thing.

 

[neilo]

We get quite a bit more broad leaf plantain naturally growing, I always associate it with compacted spots though I'm not sure if that's just me. This was whatever plantain Germinal put in their gs4 mix (it doesn't say on the website which variety it is).

Probably Tonic then, or they’ve started selling Boston too.

I put some Tonic in a mix last year, and was surprised how much actually took in the drought (unlike the grasses). What did take grew fast and some of it dropped seed before the field was worth grazing.
I sprayed those fields off in May and grazed them hard, in readiness for DD’ing a red clover ley in. I was hoping some of that seed will come back, but pleasantly surprised to see some of the original plants making a comeback too, along with the expected clover.

Those that have been growing it for a few years locally all say that it’s a job to get it to last more than a few years, even under rotational grazing. Good stuff in a drought for those couple of years though.
The same people tried chicory several years back, but don’t know of anyone still bothering with it.

Sorry, no idea what pest might have attacked yours.

 

[Troward]

Probably Tonic then, or they’ve started selling Boston too.

I put some Tonic in a mix last year, and was surprised how much actually took in the drought (unlike the grasses). What did take grew fast and some of it dropped seed before the field was worth grazing.
I sprayed those fields off in May and grazed them hard, in readiness for DD’ing a red clover ley in. I was hoping some of that seed will come back, but pleasantly surprised to see some of the original plants making a comeback too, along with the expected clover.

Those that have been growing it for a few years locally all say that it’s a job to get it to last more than a few years, even under rotational grazing. Good stuff in a drought for those couple of years though.
The same people tried chicory several years back, but don’t know of anyone still bothering with it.

Sorry, no idea what pest might have attacked yours.

Tonic rings a bell now you've mentioned it

I feel that for a lot of these things to last more than a few years, I need to be mob grazing not rotationally grazing....and with enough herbs and clover in the mix I know the lambs would fly on it....trouble is most of the farm is yorkshire fog and it would all go to head in the mean time

I like Chicory a lot....the problem I find is that the sheep seem to like it too much. Put them in a field 2 days ago with prg, wc and chicory, and all the chicory sitting looking tasty just above the rest of the sward. Left them there 10 minutes whilst I picked up the water bowser, came back and the chicory had all been nipped off in that time if I want to leave them in a field more than 2/3 days they will chew it out v quick

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I haven't as wouldn't normally like overseeding, but we have some quite open swards on the drier block that we're considering trying it in

I do it here after a cut of silage so it opens it up more and give it a few good hard passes with a Tyne harrow first , but rain straight affer is the biggest help

 

[M-J-G]

I’m never too upset about a few dandelions in pasture, as they’re quickly grazed. I’ve never seen dandelion leaves as big as those of commercial plantain varieties though, only wild ones, which are a very different thing.

Dandelions don't bother me too much, they are pretty essential for bees early in the season

 

[steveR]

Tonic rings a bell now you've mentioned it

I feel that for a lot of these things to last more than a few years, I need to be mob grazing not rotationally grazing....and with enough herbs and clover in the mix I know the lambs would fly on it....trouble is most of the farm is yorkshire fog and it would all go to head in the mean time

I like Chicory a lot....the problem I find is that the sheep seem to like it too much. Put them in a field 2 days ago with prg, wc and chicory, and all the chicory sitting looking tasty just above the rest of the sward. Left them there 10 minutes whilst I picked up the water bowser, came back and the chicory had all been nipped off in that time if I want to leave them in a field more than 2/3 days they will chew it out v quick

Yep seen that too. Right down the crown, if they are there long enough. Mind it took a while for them to develop the taste, then whammy... Gone!

 

[steveR]

Dandelions don't bother me too much, they are pretty essential for bees early in the season

I have learned to live with them now. I wasted a lot of money and time spraying them out of PP in the past, but they get ignored these days.