Potential problems with incorporating straw in organic cereal rotation?

[ploughman1963]

In organic conversion and growing winter oats as part of our rotation - Winter oats - Stubble turnips - Spring Barley/undersown perennial ryegrass and red clover. Winter oats combined - spring Barley wholecropped for silage.

One line of advise has been that we should be incorporating our straw rather than baling it and then buying in bedding straw as a way of buying in P & K.

If I chop the oat straw off the back of the combine will it cause a problem for the following crop? We would probably spread FYM on the stubble, incorporate and sow turnips on top. With no bagged nitrogen to help the turnips on, will the straw breaking down rob the turnips (or a later crop) of the nitrogen as it breaks down?

Better option to bale and remove straw - process as litter under cows/heifers in straw yards and return it to the land as FYM? My problem with that plan would be that we could have more straw than I could use and no opportunity to buy in P&K through bought in straw.

Thoughts please

Colin

 

[Bobthebuilder]

The chopped straw will use nitrogen to break down but I'm not sure on the technical side as too how much also not sure what amount of P&K oat straw will give balanced out against baling it and using it for bedding rather that buying in straw [emoji57] but with the price of straw ATM I would of thaught you'd be better off baling it and turning it into muck first before putting it on the land

 

[ploughman1963]

I think the suggestion was that if you return the oat straw to the ground there is no off-take of P&K and then by buying in non-organic straw which would get ploughed in at some point, you are effectively buying in P&K to build your indices?

 

[Flat 10]

I think the suggestion was that if you return the oat straw to the ground there is no off-take of P&K and then by buying in non-organic straw which would get ploughed in at some point, you are effectively buying in P&K to build your indices?

I understand but surely you built up your indices before you started conversion? Re your point I would not chop don't think turnips will enjoy it. Oat straw wants to go in/under a cow IMHO.

 

[Hobbit]

I think the suggestion was that if you return the oat straw to the ground there is no off-take of P&K and then by buying in non-organic straw which would get ploughed in at some point, you are effectively buying in P&K to build your indices?

I understand the need for the orangnic sector to buy non organic but would it not be more ethical to avoid that if possible and round bale your oat straw. It will be returned to the soil at some point.
Will

 

[ploughman1963]

I understand but surely you built up your indices before you started conversion? Re your point I would not chop don't think turnips will enjoy it. Oat straw wants to go in/under a cow IMHO.

I wish we had that luxury - bought in ground and lack of time prior to conversion. Yes, I think the added bacterial benefits of returning it as FYM would be a preferable route . perhaps we will just deep litter them to process all that straw

 

[Mr Charisma]

I wish we had that luxury - bought in ground and lack of time prior to conversion. Yes, I think the added bacterial benefits of returning it as FYM would be a preferable route . perhaps we will just deep litter them to process all that straw

Probably best ploughed under if you can find a decent ploughman around your parts !!!!!'

 

[rose pilchett]

Leave a long stubble when combining and sell fewer bales off it, kind of half way house?

Good luck

 

[Brisel]

I'd make the most of the room for manouvre within the organic rules IMHO. Sod the ethics, you're running a business! You're going through enough pain with conventional prices and organic costs during the conversion period. Ethics don't pay the bills. I've seen & heard enough rubbish from the Soil Association recently that questions their own damn ethics, but that's going off topic...

Are there other ways of buying in non organic material that would help your soil fertility directly or indirectly?

Importing non organic straw will help you buy in potassium. Unless the source has blackgrass contamination it will be fairly clean of weeds. If you are ploughing for weed control then it makes sense to bury the chopped straw. As above, the best straw is second hand stuff in the form of FYM though that does invlove the costs of baling, storage, usage and applying back to the land with a muckspreader.

The turnips will prefer not to have straw locking up the N as it decays. Brassicas like lots of N which is why you don't see them feature highly on organic farms. The muck will help them a great deal.

 

[Hobbit]

Apologies if my comment came across wrong I'm not a soil association spy hiding behind a sprayer avatar. Just interested. All the best for your organic future.
Will

 

[Drillman]

Bale the straw and store it outside. A proportion of it will turn to muck before it even sees an animal.

2 benefits......

1- you use more straw.

2- more building space for other stuff.

 

[Brisel]

Expensive way of creating brown stuff. Why not just chop and incorporate it in the field?? 1 t/ac straw will cost around 3 litres/ac of diesel at 48 ppl in extra hp plus an extra pass with the cultivator at the most. Baling is £10/t, £5/t to cart it back to the shed or yard then half that again to get it back to the field as waste.

 

[Wiking]

@Brisel What does the FYM acronym mean, I'm trying to learn some English terms in regards to farming. Thanks in advance (and sorry for the thread Hijack)

 

[Brisel]

FYM = Farm yard manure. Usually deep litter bedding from cattle, horses, sheep. Quite a high proportion of straw in it. Often referred to as crew yard muck too.

 

[ploughman1963]

I'd make the most of the room for manouvre within the organic rules IMHO. Sod the ethics, you're running a business! You're going through enough pain with conventional prices and organic costs during the conversion period. Ethics don't pay the bills. I've seen & heard enough rubbish from the Soil Association recently that questions their own damn ethics, but that's going off topic...

Are there other ways of buying in non organic material that would help your soil fertility directly or indirectly?

Importing non organic straw will help you buy in potassium. Unless the source has blackgrass contamination it will be fairly clean of weeds. If you are ploughing for weed control then it makes sense to bury the chopped straw. As above, the best straw is second hand stuff in the form of FYM though that does invlove the costs of baling, storage, usage and applying back to the land with a muckspreader.

The turnips will prefer not to have straw locking up the N as it decays. Brassicas like lots of N which is why you don't see them feature highly on organic farms. The muck will help them a great deal.

Existing stewardship agreement means we must have an acreage of stubble turnips/brassicas and with plenty of graziers around, s/turnips is best bet.

I think we may try a test area with chopped straw to see how it goes, otherwise, I think processed through stock yards is probably the safer option.

With einbocking the oats as a control for broad leaved weeds, cutting a higher stubble will be a necessity to avoid the stones pulled up

Thanks all for the input