Predicament Advice needed

[slackjawedyokel]

If they're to be sold (and sounds like that's the best thing for them) put the relative in touch with a auctioneer and leave them to it.
Don't have any part in selling them yourself.

Similarly if you’re giving up a bit of time to feed the animals, the relative should step up and pay for feed for them.

 

[le bon paysan]

If you are involved in caring for these animals in any way then I'd be calling trading standards, possibly the rspca and the local vet. Get them all together and explain the situation so that you can continue to attempt to help without being liable for any animal cruelty or other regulation breaking activity.

this may also help if in the future you get accused of stealing stock or unfairly profiting from the situation.

This, and photograph, tape conversations and take written notes.

 

[crashbox]

Someone's going to have time break it to the old chap sooner or later, and in my view better to do it before the stock are sold, or the authorities/RSPCA are called by a third party.

Perhaps pay him a visit, with your neighbour, and talk it through.

Good luck, I hope it works out for all.

 

[ARW]

It’s alright getting in touch with all these parties but they will probably do naff all
I would feed them till the feed is nearly running out and use that time to organise them to be sold. If your man has been sectioned I doubt he will be coming back very quickly and even if he does who’s to say how long that may take and will he still want to farm?

 

[Pot ale]

It’s alright getting in touch with all these parties but they will probably do naff all
I would feed them till the feed is nearly running out and use that time to organise them to be sold. If your man has been sectioned I doubt he will be coming back very quickly and even if he does who’s to say how long that may take and will he still want to farm?

We are finding this out with all these bodies they have plenty to say but no resources Our mistake was to start feeding them

 

[Welderloon]

Total minefield!!!!
If the Guy has been sectioned then surely its down to the distant relative via the family solicitor, Trading Standards & the RSPCA to sort it out, someone ( presumably the distant relative will need to be given power of attorney to handle 'Toby's' affairs while he is in care ) - by all means assist feeding etc in the short term if you so wish but do not get involved in any monetary transactions regarding sale or disposal of animals or equipment.

 

[atlas]

Is there paper work for the cattle might not be possible to sell if that isnt correct

 

[DeeGee]

As has been said, selling the stock is not a good idea. They are not yours.

Always a difficult balancing act between being a decent neighbour and human being as you are being, and the danger of putting yourself in jeopardy both financially and in legality by trying to do what you think is ‘the best’.

Do the bare minimum, notify the relevant authorities and the relative concerned and then walk away, unless specifically asked to do certain things (in writing) but with the clear understanding of having immunity from any mistakes and also having financial recompense for your work.

You have already done more than you are obliged to and been more than a good neighbour. But perhaps you need to remember the old adage that ‘no good deed ever goes unpunished’!

 

[puppet]

Well done for stepping up in a crisis. My neighbours would do something similar I hope. Keep a note of your time as some compensation. He is going to have some assets. Being sectioned does not mean he cannot make decisions if he then recovers quickly but you cannot sell his stock until he is deemed to lack capacity and this would then trigger the Power of Attorney. It can be for welfare or financial but from what you say, I doubt there is one and sounds like an ongoing illness. The relative might have nothing to gain if there is a will somewhere so don't make assumptions when you speak to them. I would ask them for honesty about their situation as you will be charging for your involvement. If no POA then there can be an application for Guardianship which allows for decisions to made in their interest but that will be a slower process.
In severe cases there must be legal steps RSPCA will take.

 

[jendan]

I've been dragged into issue i'd rather not be in
A local 73 year old farmer { Toby} to me has had a nervous break down his mental health has deteriorated over the last 4/5 years. He has no immediate relations or close friends The police were called and have sectioned him and he is now in a secure hospital
The farm is grim ,buildings falling down . His home is like something you see on tv but worse, i would'nt keep a dog in it He has some cattle and sheep and there are alot of welfare issues. A couple of dead animals lying about, lame animals malnourished ect There is only enough feed to last until christmas at best
We and another neighbour have ended up feeding his stock A distant relation of his has appeared and suggested that the animals should be sold and money paid into Toby's account The relation came today and took some photo's of the stock ' they are not good viewing
This is the sensible thing to do but do we have the authority to sell them ? It doesn't sit comfortable with me but it looks like Toby could be in hospital a long time Frankly it's the best place for him at least he is warm and dry , being fed and getting some treatment
If they are not sold who is going to pay to buy some silage and straw to feed them ? I have paid for the vet to look at some of the animals We are reluctant to involve the authorties in case the prosecute Toby which won't do him or the stock any good
Any advice ?

I note you only joined the Forum on Monday.How have you been dragged into the issue ?

 

[Pot ale]

Is there paper work for the cattle might not be possible to sell if that isnt cor

I note you only joined the Forum on Monday.How have you been dragged into the issue ?

I'm a regular poster on here I asked if i could post anonymously and was advised by a moderator to create a new account

 

[flowerpot]

You need to speak to whoever is responsible for Toby in the local mental health team that sectioned him, and inform them of the situation. His legal and monetary affairs will now be the responsibility of the Court of Protection, but if they don't know he has property and livestock responsibilities they aren't going to be able to act.

In the meantime I would do my best to keep the animals fed and watered, purely for welfare reasons. Don't sell anything, because you don't have the right to do so, even if asked to by the relative, unless they have a Power of Attorney. If you did sell stuff you could (potentially) be charged with stealing, even if you didn't benefit from the sale. If you are getting nowhere with the mental health lot you could try the RSPCA as they would have the power to remove the stock on welfare grounds and at least then they would be being cared for. Toby won't be prosecuted if he's been sectioned, even the RSPCA aren't that callous.

This is sensible advice.

 

[som farmer]

Speak to the council. They have a team to deal with this sort of thing and will be very unlikely to prosecute in the circumstances. Call them tomorrow morning and give them a minimal handover then walk away and leave it to the professionals.

a cousin went down a similar path, not 'sectioned' but closed his eyes to what was happening, and he had an employee. Sorted out what l could, and got them sold off, shot a few that shouldn't be seen, and left him with a very rattled employee, who would properly feed them, and those without p/ports. Trading standards came in, as requested, seemed quite helpful, arranged for those without pp to be shot and binned, and took a big chunk of his SFP, barstewards, they said they wouldn't do that, as a 'mental' issue.
Those that were left, l said l would buy, once TB tested, but another b/steward, went in, and had them for nothing, as the TS had 'let him know'.

 

[David1968]

Someone's going to have time break it to the old chap sooner or later, and in my view better to do it before the stock are sold, or the authorities/RSPCA are called by a third party.

Perhaps pay him a visit, with your neighbour, and talk it through.

Good luck, I hope it works out for all.

It might actually be a relief for him, if he realises he's not going to be able carry on.

 

[Highland Mule]

a cousin went down a similar path, not 'sectioned' but closed his eyes to what was happening, and he had an employee. Sorted out what l could, and got them sold off, shot a few that shouldn't be seen, and left him with a very rattled employee, who would properly feed them, and those without p/ports. Trading standards came in, as requested, seemed quite helpful, arranged for those without pp to be shot and binned, and took a big chunk of his SFP, barstewards, they said they wouldn't do that, as a 'mental' issue.
Those that were left, l said l would buy, once TB tested, but another b/steward, went in, and had them for nothing, as the TS had 'let him know'.

Out of respect to parties involved I won't give details but my experiences were completely different and the council acted with complete integrity.

 

[Top Tip.]

Out of respect to parties involved I won't give details but my experiences were completely different and the council acted with complete integrity.

I have had experience of a number of cases like this and it is nothing to do with RSPCA they have no power in law . This has to be handled by animal health who will go in and supervise the care of the animals,organise the sale or destruction in liaison with the local vet.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Perhaps pay him a visit, with your neighbour, and talk it through.

He won't be the right mind atm i should think.

This is sensible advice.

It is and hopefully the 'Mental healthteam' (the first part of that) are good at the job and have the resources needed , but after he is 'let back out' (for want of a better way of putting it ) as that is the critical time(s) at that point and beyond is when he will need an a eye kept not just now in the heat of it all.
Long term care is as important as now.

 

[Still Farming]

Guess the "relation" has the say sadly possibly unless you see the chap, he is out of "sectioned", category and see what chap says.
He may hate the relative and sign all to you?
Ask your Solicitor and or his, too possibly?

 

[JMTHORNLEY]

I don't want to offer any advice or input but you sound like a great chap and an even better neighbour. World needs more of you and no matter what the outcome don't blame yourself for anything. Good luck

 

[David1968]

He won't be the right mind atm i should think.

We don't know the details of why he was sectioned, but it doesn't necessarily mean he is ga-ga.