Raised beds

[KMA]

I've finally cleared enough ground to start putting in some raised beds and came across some 'spare' boards that will do the job while mooching round my son's yard.

Does 12' x 4' sound about right for the beds?

The boards are 16' long so I'd be able to get one bed from 2 boards I think there's 14 of them so potentially 7 beds.

Any hints, tips or things I should be aware of?

 

[Chasingmytail]

As far as Im aware there are no rules as long as you can reach all around without stepping on the beds.

Using timbers thats been treated is a no no for me apparently larch is the best.

 

[foxbox]

Anchor them together well otherwise things start to creep apart after a few months and the wife gets cross when the soil leaks out...

 

[Fieldarcher]

make sure you can reach easily into the centre of the beds for planting and weeding.
As been said use treated wood and secure them or when its filled you might find they move

 

[KMA]

Thanks, I'm currently stripping out an old field fence that got washed out in the floods and dumped in a heap couple of years ago, lot of hassle but at least I get the nice old fashioned 3"square stobs (enough tar in them to resurface or the M6) for free, which will be used for the uprights.

I believe the first standardised dimensions for raised beds were laid out by the early monasteries so the monks could kneel between beds and reach the past the middle without walking on them but haven't been able to find the dimensions except the 4' width.

 

[Old McDonald]

The ideal size of the beds is a personal matter. It depends on your size and fitness level. Your own preferences also matter. Some people like to straddle the beds when sowing seeds in rows across them, or when transplanting. I do, and find that one metre is about as much as I can manage. Others never sow across the width so only need to reach the middle. Again though, the width is dictated by your size. Somebody 6'4" can reach further than someone the size of Ronnie Corbett. Cato (the Roman politician, who was also a farmer and gardener) suggested a width for Asparagus beds that has been translated to approx. 5 feet. That shows the idea of beds like this has been around for a very long time.

The length depends on your site. There is no reason to limit the length to any particular dimension. Why would you want to linit it? I always make them whatever length fits in the site. My present ones are between about 25 and 35 feet. I also like wide paths in between them, about two and a half feet. Some people, particularly if they are on limited space, have much narrower paths. You can sow right up to the edge of the beds and some plants will hang over the edge, reducing the width of the path, so I like to start with a wide one.

I never make a fence (edge) around the beds. I have never seen the need for them. After marking out the beds, dig out the pathways and put the soil on the beds, this gives you the beginning of the rise in level you desire. Plenty or organic stuff over the next few years will give you a lightly higher level. Edging gives ideal harbour for slugs and snails.

 

[KMA]

It's the swamp, so the main purpose is to raise the growing levels out of flood prone zone so I think if I dug out the paths without any side I'd need waders and the beds would be constantly collapsing

Paths I'm thinking 2'6 to give me room for a barrow, might reuse the cowtrak yet again or maybe wood chippings

I've managed to salvage enough 9"x 2 " boards to make 3 beds 18" high with an option to raise them by up to another 6".

Width, settling for 4' and working from either side.

Length, I'm going for 12' just for personal preference, it also lets me use a single board up the sides.

I've room for a maximum of 13, 12'x4' beds inc. paths but need to leave room for a chook run and I suppose a bit of a lawn .

3 beds will do for this year as I need easy access to the far corner to clear a load of rubble and clear some hawthorn from the far end to replace with a double row of fruit bushes. Also got an almost dead apple tree to clear from the middle of the beds area before I can put more in next year.

 

[Old McDonald]

@KMA , I remember you mentioning "the swamp" in other posts. Am I right in thinking it can be drained though? Or is my memory wrong? If it could be done, is it possible to make the paths in such a way tht they act as drains? If not, then I think yuou do not have much option but to raise the beds as high as possible. If they are knee height or more it will be easier on your back as you get older!!

 

[KMA]

Yup, its pretty awful ground to work with at the moment but a hell of a lot better since I sorted out the hedge, which has allowed the sun and wind to get at it but it is still an ankle deep quagmire in places as soon as any water hits it. The idea of constructing the paths ni such a way as to act as some kind of drainage is sound. I'm hoping raised beds will at least provide good growing conditions I'm going to dig the beds area down a foot or two try and scrounge some rubble to back fill then a membrane over the top of that before filling the raised beds with decent topsoil and manure. If I had the money I'd bring in a mini-digger and put in a proper drainage system and dig out the worst of the 'slip', which I intend to do if/when I ever have the money.

More Steptoe & son than Homes and Gardens

I've got as much manure and OM as I want not just from my son's place but one of his neighbours has 400tons of loose box muck he wants rid of. Topsoil is going to be a problem as I need to get it for £0, I can move stuff, I just can't buy it. The boards were picked up cheap when a local timber mill moved locations a couple of years ago and wanted to clear old stock and the corner posts will be from an old fence I'm stripping down. The cowtrak was from when we had our old place. The scaffolding poles for the fruit cage will come from from an old cubicle shed we're stripping out.

 

[KMA]

Thing I always have to bear in mind when planning things out is that the local estate (owns the local farms and most of the village) wants to build houses in the neighbouring field which is going to seriously affect the drainage and the access road for which is going to impact on the layout of my ground, I'll lose some but gain elsewhere. I have no idea when this is going ahead (if ever) and I don't want to remind them. I think they'd be insane to go ahead with it given the terrain and lack of infrastructure but then I'm not one of the fukors Factors ruining running the estate

 

[Old McDonald]

I'm going to dig the beds area down a foot or two try and scrounge some rubble to back fill then a membrane over the top of that before filling the raised beds

A membrane will stop the roots of your plants from going down.

 

[KMA]

Hope so, nothing in the beds should need to go that far down.

Update, cleared all the sod off the area for the first bed near one end found the remains of what I think was an old Victorian chimney pot, laid the bits aside for backfill. Next decided to try deep trenching the bed just for a look-see, going nicely, soil surprisingly good until I came to some fist sized stones about 20" down and 3 feet from the start of the trench, lifted them out and had water seeping into the hole, mucky at first then started to clear quite quickly.

At this point my son arrived with the boards for the sides of the beds, so took a break from digging to unload and then back-load with some smaller boards I don't need but he has a use for. Finishes all that then decides to show him how clever and industrious I've been and show off my raised bed in progress, looks in the hole and sees a bit of orange where the water is now nice and clear. Clear it back a bit and find a length of old clay drainage tile lying at right angles to the direction I was going to lay the bed.

So instead of putting in my fancy raised bed my next job will be hand digging along the length of the drain, trying to find the outflow end and then rodding to see how far up it's blocked. I suspect that it isn't the only drain in the 'garden' but it's not marked on any maps.

Very pleased I've got drains in the area but it's a division of labour I could have done without. If I can get the drains running I'm not going to bother with the membrane as that was to stop the soil clogging up the stone sumps.

 

[KMA]

After a couple of hours up to my welly tops digging it looks like I've found an old tile drain, the outflow has been disrupted by (a now ex) self seeded ash tree. The outflow is now barely above the level of marsh in the field. If as I suspect the drains are laid out in the standard pattern then there should be more in lines 6' apart. If this is the case then I'll turn the beds through 90 degrees and place the paths above the drainage lines as @Old McDonald suggested. Lots of test holes/trenches to dig tomorrow. After that I'll figure out what I'm going to do.

 

[Chasingmytail]

are you going to line the wooden beds especially if using tarred timber - I would prefer not to use any chemicals that can leach into the soils and into the roots of plants. I have no evidence to prove that the leaching could have an effect on the mychorizzles, worms etc but I wouldnt think its a positive move for healthy soils. For the ones in the poly we used untreated larch as this is apparently the best.

 

[Old McDonald]

Hope so, nothing in the beds should need to go that far down.

Roots of all plants go down a few feet, some more than "a few". I have online copies of two excellent books on the subject by Prof. John E. Weaver who was with the University of Nebraska in the USA during the first half of the last century.

I have done a quick Google search (plants roots depth weaver) and close to the top of the first page of results is this one http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/root-development-vegetable-crops-zb0z1308zkin

The book mentioned in the article is one of the two I have, the other refers to field crops. He dug pits much deeper than the 5'mentioned in the article. There are some other good results on that search too.

If as I suspect the drains are laid out in the standard pattern then there should be more in lines 6' apart.

6' seems very close together for agricultural drains. I have drained a fair bit of land in my younger days, or rather had it drained by contractors, and they were always a lot further apart than that - 12 or 18 yards depending on the soil type. Of course there is nothing to stop you adding more once you have the existing ones running and you can Y the new drains into the old.

What you might be able to do, and I have done this, is to carefully lift out one tile. You will then see how much the drain is silted up, and whether the water is still flowing along the line higher up the drain - it will run out where you have removed the tile. Replace the tile and put some food colouring into the small space between two tiles to act as a dye. I use cochineal, but if your kitchen cupboard only has other colours they will work as well. About a tablespoonful is what I would use. It is food material so no risk to the environment.

You then need to do a thorough search along the likely site of outfalls and see if there is any colour coming through. Depending on the rate of movement and distance this could be as short as a few minutes or it might not appear until the following day. If it does not appear at all then you have a broken or blocked drain somewhere.

 

[KMA]

Thanks, those root maps are an big eye opener

I took the a shortcut and dug down roughly where I think the outflow is, found what looks to be a partially collapsed sandstone cover, cleared as much as I could and got a fair bit of water but the tree-stump/roots mean it's going to be a bu99er of a job to clear and restore it, I'm think loader and chain. Further back (about 6' from the end) I've cleared enough to be able to lift a tile but it looks to be silted up to within mm of the top, not much coming out

I'm glad you think the drains could be yards apart it alters the way I go about looking for any other drains. might even try dowsing, but the simplest would be a narrow trench running across the direction of the drains. I've already staked the first couple of holes for tomorrow. must look out the draining rods but putting the jetting line on the pressure washer might be the best bet then flush it out from the removed tile in both directions. Like the food dye idea.

From what I understand any drains can't have worked for decades, no-one knew there were any there and the one I've found runs at 90 degrees to what I would have expected but then who knows how things have changed since it was put in.

Once I've got any drains cleared I'm going to put gully pots with a paving slab cover

 

[KMA]

are you going to line the wooden beds especially if using tarred timber - I would prefer not to use any chemicals that can leach into the soils and into the roots of plants. I have no evidence to prove that the leaching could have an effect on the mychorizzles, worms etc but I wouldnt think its a positive move for healthy soils. For the ones in the poly we used untreated larch as this is apparently the best.

Not got that far yet but certainly thinking about it but I want the walls to be able to weep, I'm leaning towards the new (safer) 'cuprinol' type paint, all the boards are untreated larch think 'scaffolding' boards but thicker. I think one of the worst areas is actually a bit less soggy this morning but it could just be wishful thinking.

 

[Old McDonald]

I think one of the worst areas is actually a bit less soggy this morning but it could just be wishful thinking.

What is the situation now? Your "swamp" intrigues me.

Yes I know there are more important things going on in the world, but global politics and the world economic situation are not half so interesting as someone growing their own food and facing trials and tribulations they never expected.

 

[KMA]

Thanks I......... think I'm trying not to bore everyone to distraction with a tiresome monologue

It was showing some very slight signs of improvement but 2 days of fairly heavy rain I don't want to go anywhere near some parts of it.

Spent yesterday morning driving round Dumfries trying to the get various stuff I needed, never really been an issue in the past but by the reaction in one place you'd have thought I was asking for unicorn feathers, totally useless Finally I got everything I needed from one small ag merchant away out in the hills. On my travels I also called into a local quarry merchant and priced up pea gravel (f**k me!! is it gold?), sand (ouch) and topsoil (not too bad) and all a lot less if I do the transport myself.

I've got all the stuff I need to make the beds. After two days of digging I finally got enough of a gap cleared to get a chain round the ash trunk and after a false start I managed to lift it out and have dug back about 6', still not sure where it ends up but have bought some 100mm drainage pipe which I will lay once I've dug the drain back to the other side of the swamp. I'll check to see if I can find any trace of any other drains and will put in at least one more either way but that's a project for next winter.

Other current project is sorting out the entrance to the garden which involves taking down a drys-tone wall 7' back, building a new cheek, yet another old tree stump, and putting in a post and rail fence with a closing post for a 12' gate.

So far my son and I have cleared 6 tons of stone, rubble and a tree stump with at least the same again to go. As it's been so wet the last couple of days I'll be working on the fence and dyke while I hope the rest of the swamp dries out a bit so I can crack on with the drain. I've gone down with some lurgy and have overworked some muscles I'd forgotten I had so I'm going to force myself to have the weekend off so today is wall to wall 6N rugby + beer, tomorrow may be a problem if I'm feeling a bit better.

 

[Old McDonald]

hanks I......... think I'm trying not to bore everyone to distraction with a tiresome monologue

If I thought it was boring I would not have asked about it. You have at least one interested reader, probably more.