ringi
Member
It depends if the "mongrel ewe lambs" work well on the farm's own lower ground.
Ram costs
- Thread starter Sendhelp
- Start date
It depends if the "mongrel ewe lambs" work well on the farm's own lower ground.
M-J-G
Member
It's not just a case of them doing well, more that they have to do better than hybrids for there to be a greater demand and price.
Or is the whole hybrid vigour thing not true in your mind?
(I ask that out of genuine interest)
My origional point was that if you are going to keep a hybrid in your system it may as well be in whichever half of the equation that you're going to reap the most benefit from, and that must almost certainty be in the ewe flock since you have so many more of them that you have ewes.
The pig industry is pretty much all about hybrid sows put to a 3rd cross boar because the sow is bringing the same amount of genetics to the table as the boar whilst doing pretty much all the work, making her first cross status beneficial to her overall performance.
The same has generally been the case with sheep and suckler cows in the past as well.
Hybrid rams are fine because they might be tougher, fitter and live longer than a pure, but if they only make it 1or 2 percent of the breeding flock and the remaining 98% are pure ewes that would benefit from being replaced by a hybrid ewe I would be opting for a hybrid ewe as a priority over a hybrid ram.
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M-J-G
Member
But the buyer won't get the benefit of their progeny being a 3 way cross, with the added disadvantage of the origional breeder running a flock of pure ewes, with a small advantage of having a hybrid ram. I see few advantages there.
When I say hybrid I mean F1, not a pure ewe with a ram that has varying degrees of several different breeds.
Who could say what's in some hill breeds these days, I wouldn't like to have to guess.
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Here are some mongrel ram lambs....tried an aberfield SR ram over some of my best home bred ewes to see what they are like. Now up to 70kg from a March born lamb, they are averaging 280gr/day DLWG of just grass.
They should make useful tups I would think:
They should make useful tups I would think:
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M-J-G
Member
There was no offence meant by the term mongrel, I have plenty here myself and don't see any major issue with them as individuals.
The chat got onto how fragmented systems can get and how the multitudes of combos can become difficult to find a place for.
Nothing wrong with those lambs, they've done smashing and I have no doubt that they will go on to do fine
The customer base for that combination may well be limited.
. No. I Was only joshing about Mongrels.After all most sheep in this country are not pure bred anyway.
This is a bit of an experiment. They are just beating the pure Lleyn ram lambs on growth rates other than one exceptional pure lamb.
The ewe lambs look lovely and all will
Be tupped in a few weeks.
The Aberfield sr ram will Be used again this year and I’m hoping for plenty of ewe lambs.
The ram lambs should give something new to look at come selling next year. They should provide fur excellent ewe lambs and whethers that grow and finish quickly I hope.
- Location
- North Antrim
The thing that could get lost in all this is you need the pure maternal breeds with all their essential traits to get the stable hybrid crosses. In my opinion that makes them the most important sheep of all.
After all most sheep in this country are not pure bred anyway.
This is a bit of an experiment. They are just beating the pure Lleyn ram lambs on growth rates other than one exceptional pure lamb.
The ewe lambs look lovely and all will
Be tupped in a few weeks.
The Aberfield sr ram will Be used again this year and I’m hoping for plenty of ewe lambs.
The ram lambs should give something new to look at come selling next year. They should provide fur excellent ewe lambs and whethers that grow and finish quickly I hope.
Agree, and as a result the core flock here will always be pure bred.
I’ve effectively 3 flocks in one.
For replacements and ram sales there’s the pedigree group and for want of a better name, the high performance group.
Both those are bred pure/ped
Then there’s the commercial flock that is all to terminal sires.
The Aberfield cross ewes will always be in the commercial flock.
- Location
- Welshman living in Nottinghamshire
When paying northwards of £600+ for a tup, are people expecting any guarantees (
cue the jokers) or anything along those lines?
cue the jokers) or anything along those lines?
M-J-G
Member
The only guarantee is that you've not got >£600 any moreWhen paying northwards of £600+ for a tup, are people expecting any guarantees (
When paying northwards of £600+ for a tup, are people expecting any guarantees (
90 day warranty
I stand by my rams, any issues not related injury after delivery will be looked at.
never had a fertility claim.
Very pleased today to get feedback from a buyer 4 years ago. All 4 rams still going on n strong and back to the flock to work again.
When selling in Carlisle we insure them for three months at over £600When paying northwards of £600+ for a tup, are people expecting any guarantees (
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
When paying northwards of £600+ for a tup, are people expecting any guarantees (
Regardless of what you pay, the vendor should surely stand by them if they expect to maintain any sort of reputation?
If the problem is down to something that may have been there before purchase, genetic, etc, then I’d expect any reputable breeder to sort it out. If they died of pasteurella, fighting, etc then it’s hardly the breeder’s fault and just one of those things.
Some vendors seem to get away with sticking two fingers up though (I have a mental list in our breed, and won’t even consider their stock), and auctioneers don’t often seem willing to get involved.
- Location
- Olney, north bucks
I replaced a ram this year for the first time, a long standing customer bought a ram late in the season (December) and then in February contacted me to say he was infertile, I did suggest this could be seasonal infertility for a Suffolk and to retest in July and if still infertile I would replace him.When paying northwards of £600+ for a tup, are people expecting any guarantees (
Which I duly have as the ram tested infertile again. First one in 25 years of selling rams so can’t complain and importantly the customer is happy with the outcome and will be back
.FJ
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