Ram lamb breeding ,grinding my gears
- Thread starter MJT
- Start date
M-J-G
Member
Not sure if I'd want to live in a world where a beer belly was counted as a natural thing!
Or tucking up for that matter.
easyram1
Member
- Location
- North Shropshire
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and the one you are referring to was only in 1998 the year after we sold Crosemanor Commandeur silly me
Sorry I am told this was a different articleWhat a memory you have. Jeremy Hunt wrote that article 26 years ago and I got into all sorts of trouble then from the breed hierarchy for giving too much information
and the one you are referring to was only in 1998 the year after we sold Crosemanor Commandeur silly meshearit by blades
Member
easyram 1 out of all the lambs born how many would you expect to cull out before they reach selling point as a tup ? also a open question to other ram breeders . if it was a non sucker or wouldn't get up and go would you cull just intrested
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I'll go then...
If it didn't get up and go, or developed entropion, it would have an ear notch and not get a chance to be retained. Having continental breed though, there aren't many that don't 'get up and go', so a fairly easy decision (financially).
As far as %age retained, it depends on the year, but normally around 50% of ram lambs get retained here.
shearit by blades
Member
neilo , great to see an honest awnser from a seller .if every one else did the same there wouldent be so many rams around and people complaining that rams wernt fit for purpose
rams around and people complaining that rams wernt fit for purpose 10% tops.
Not a problem we've faced like Neil. I suspect they'd be self limiting here. We don't own a heat lamp. Lambs go out after a day or two.
Joe
Member
- Location
- Carlow Ireland
Same here about 50% but have an exceptional ram at the moment that his lambs run at about 60% make it through culling
Never really had an issue with get up and go here, but have tried Rams through AI here that I ve stayed away from breeding as found the offspring less lively than would like compared to others. Have defo found correlation between cold tolerance gene marker & lambs get up & go though
Having only been trying to breed terminal sires for a few years my experience may be a bit thin but----I will have 5 yearling rams to sell this year from a total of 62 ewes that lambed.
This low rate is no doubt partially due to having a young flock (that is young to me and my system not young ewes) and also to my wanting to be happy that stock is worth keeping and breeding from
If they don't suckle they don't make it here as they have to lamb outside & get on with it (if they need dagging it's the same etc)
On the maternal side I have about 45 out of 600 ram lambs that I considered good enough to keep for sale/use this last year.
They have to be functional and have not ever been treated for anything and they have to be at least in the top 25% of the BLUP evaluation
$Sheep
Member
- Location
- New Zealand
A most interesting discussion
As a commercial sheep farmer with a self replacing maternal ewe flock we buy in breeding rams that must satisfy some key criteria:
1) maternal traits are first, second and third priority
2) the replacement ewe lamb must lamb as a hogget so by default the lamb growth rate pre and post weaning is important
3) not all lambs will go on to be a replacement consequently carcase value is also part of the selection criterion.
Our farm environment suits a particular type of sheep (we prefer a particular breed of sheep but there are other breeds that could perform equally as well) so the type of sheep must fit the farm and thrive i.e. fit-for-purpose and functionality.
We do use a terminal sire on the 'B' ewe flock to get benefit from hybrid vigour. Whilst we would like all lambs to be finished early there is always a tail end of some description and so these lambs will finish over the summer. Not an easy task in hill country so the terminal ram is sourced from a breeder who also farms in a hill country environment rather than a breeder on easy country and so has a breeding program that faces not all but some of the same challenges.
The phrase 'horses for courses' is important to apply when selecting rams for your farm. The commercial sheep farmer has the final decision as to what breed and type of ram they will buy. The influence this decision has upon farm business profit will be very significant so it is important to choose the right ram(s).
As a commercial sheep farmer with a self replacing maternal ewe flock we buy in breeding rams that must satisfy some key criteria:
1) maternal traits are first, second and third priority
2) the replacement ewe lamb must lamb as a hogget so by default the lamb growth rate pre and post weaning is important
3) not all lambs will go on to be a replacement consequently carcase value is also part of the selection criterion.
Our farm environment suits a particular type of sheep (we prefer a particular breed of sheep but there are other breeds that could perform equally as well) so the type of sheep must fit the farm and thrive i.e. fit-for-purpose and functionality.
We do use a terminal sire on the 'B' ewe flock to get benefit from hybrid vigour. Whilst we would like all lambs to be finished early there is always a tail end of some description and so these lambs will finish over the summer. Not an easy task in hill country so the terminal ram is sourced from a breeder who also farms in a hill country environment rather than a breeder on easy country and so has a breeding program that faces not all but some of the same challenges.
The phrase 'horses for courses' is important to apply when selecting rams for your farm. The commercial sheep farmer has the final decision as to what breed and type of ram they will buy. The influence this decision has upon farm business profit will be very significant so it is important to choose the right ram(s).
MJT
Member
Not on the pedigree scale of you other boys. Only have around 30 ram lambs to choose from per year tops, but usually sell 10-12 per year . Anything that's a pain in ass at lambing time gets its tail and balls rung (leave beltex ram lambs to keep with long tails) and then later on anything that can't keep up on the forage system is red marked and sent to market. Always have the one lamb that I've rung that I look at in field and regret but then they do look good to stand next to in pen in fat market so not all bad.
easyram1
Member
- Location
- North Shropshire
About 25%/30%. Re sucking and lambing assistance everything is recorded in the lambing book but very very few issues on either count. By lambing 80% outdoors lambing/suckling problems tend to be sorted a bit quick without much need for records!
I like the way you say its a waste of only having 50% of a ram lamb crop making the grade.....now i suppose i speak for every good stockman, just cause you put a £1000 tup on a £1000 ewe doesnt mean your going to have a £1000 lamb to sell!!
This is where a lot of breeders go wrong just cause its sire and dam is bred this way and that way you could end up with a nightmare and a crap lamb, seen it happen!!
Personally ill only run on rams that id use myself, that i like, any fault or just 'i will do' get sold fat!! Not only would i not want to sell somthing i wouldnt want to stand behind but your reputation can take years to build but one bad ram can ruin it!!!! Some years can keep 20 lambs some years 6, its like rolling a dice!!!
Weather youve bought or bred anything, not every single ram is going to be a winner, everyone has mistakes etc its one of the unfortunate problems that comes with keeping livestock 'they dont all follow the rule book' same as people just cause one sibling is a dr doesnt mean the next one is going to be!!
Yea every person will aim for 100% but no one ever will, and anyone that tells you that they do is either lying or need to go back to the shed and have a good hard look at there stock!!
So do you buy rams in?
Would you accept a ram lamb from the bottom 50% of someone else's flock?