Rape phosphate dressings

[Elmsted]

Interesting to read the views of a person who is a commercial seller of a number of products, yet appear as renowned resercher. Though I as much as any one appreciate that a graduate from 1980 has a international career is certainly interesting. I as a mere observer concur with the PH and availabilty issues. However. The management of nutrition can not be isolated from the other agronomic items such as herbicides/fungicides/insectides and of course I am sure we all concur we can not overcome nature. WE need the flexability to work with whatever is thrown at us. My view remains tissue analysis is essential during the growth of a crop.

It as my post on albrecht seedling take up of P and as I understand Simon Fox acidity, liquidity. But I would say that Cytokinins and growth stimulants do have an effect as do previous herbicide use.

 

[EmeraldCropSci]

I agree independent trial results would be good to see, it seems to be almost impossible to find such results on nutritional products in general,

I was merely complimenting Simon on his nutritional commentary which to me seems to align itself well with the independent information that I have thus far received during my education and professional career ( I am in the trade as well as a farmer). To be honest, this makes a refreshing change from the methods used by some companies.

As far as I am concerned, products must prove themselves in practice.

Thanks very much. In response to Andy Howard, I do understand the need for scepticism and, as I've said before, there is not only an awful lot of nonsense talked about with respect to soils & crop nutrition, there are also an awful lot of poor products sold too as either nutrients or purporting to have some other beneficial effects.

With respect to trials results:

We have results from trials conducted by professional independent trials firms for our products going back several years, most of which show clear evidence of benefit. As you would expect we have had disappointments on occasion and have either dropped products or revised programmes as a consequence. In addition we have an ongoing trials programme for the 2012/13 season and are just finalising trials for the coming season. While most of these are in the UK, some are overseas and target crops like Grain Maize, Olives and Bananas. This last season in the UK we've conducted farmer-led field trials and independent trials conducted by Universities and independent trials specialists into OSR, Wheat, Hemp and Potatoes. We are still awaiting final results for these and some are yet to be harvested.

Even today I've been visiting one of our more remote trial sites in the South West inspecting our Hemp trials and assessing treatment differences. This won't be harvested (for oil) until mid-October.

When we've worked out how best to publish the outcomes of both historical and current trials to this forum, we will do so. I hope this won't be long, but I have a busy week ahead both soil surveying, sampling and visiting more trial sites, so bear with me! I may also put some up on the website, but prefer to share them with enquirers directly.

By the way, our products are exclusive and formulated for us by a specialist formulation chemist. Obviously, if we have a foliar Manganese it will contain Manganese, but the carrier and formulation are unique.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Where is the strong evidence on foliar feeds contributing to combinable crop yields? Can I find it on the web?

 

[Andy Howard]

Our on farm trials over the last two years has shown positive results. Only way to be sure for me is to test it yourself.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Our on farm trials over the last two years has shown positive results. Only way to be sure for me is to test it yourself.

I did some tissue tests this year. Will dig them out later. Couldn't see anything begging out to be applied. What do you like to apply generally? And how through what mechanism does the plant manage to absorb these nutrients?

 

[Brisel]

My predecessor liked his micronutrient tonics in every spring spray mix, having worshipped the God known as Dr Chris Green. Huge spray bills, scorch & no yield boost to prove it. You could see a white layer on the leaves - no wonder no sunlight could get through

 

[SilliamWhale]

My predecessor liked his micronutrient tonics in every spring spray mix, having worshipped the God known as Dr Chris Green. Huge spray bills, scorch & no yield boost to prove it. You could see a white layer on the leaves - no wonder no sunlight could get through

That's the the thing these potion bills can creep up on you.

 

[Flat 10]

There was something about this in Robert Plumb's latest newsletter.

If oxygen is the most paramagnetic element and roots are attracted to it, then why don't they grow up and out of the ground where there is plenty of it, unlike in the soil where there is a higher concentration of CO2. I sometimes wonder if he puts these concepts into his newsletters to test whether we can tell the difference between pseudoscience and actual science (i.e. how gullible we are). See also somatids.

I had a real moment when I got to somatids, I thought this would surely have been mentioned at least in passing if it were true at university, but I checked and its not. I'm not sure why he includes this stuff either, some stuff is otherwise very thought provoking.

 

[Andy Howard]

Foil-N is the main thing I have been using and trialling. Last year gave a £132/ha benefit over fungicides only. This year's results I have not had a chance to work the economics yet but on average we got half a tonne increase in yield in wheat over fungicides only. Will give more info when know more. All micro nutrient products are not the same. It is a bit like saying I had a crap load of Lothian once so not going to bother with n fert anymore.

 

[EmeraldCropSci]

My predecessor liked his micronutrient tonics in every spring spray mix, having worshipped the God known as Dr Chris Green. Huge spray bills, scorch & no yield boost to prove it. You could see a white layer on the leaves - no wonder no sunlight could get through

And here you've hit the nail on the head.

The fact that plants can absorb any nutrient (and other substances through foliage) is a piece of luck for us - they most certainly didn't evolve to take in nutrients this way!

Because of the complex structure of leaves - the inter- and intra- cellular mechanisms for absorption and translocation, as well as the diverse range of complex cuticle wax structures on the surface - it makes it difficult for most compounds to penetrate at all or only with difficulty. (And before anyone mentions it, plants do not absorb nutrients through stomata in any meaningful amounts).

This is why fungicide & herbicide manufacturers have put so much effort into developing formulations that will help conduct their active ingredients in to plants and why only a few active ingredients are actually successful.

For precisely this reason @Brisel's predecessor had scorch and white layers on leaves. It is also why the majority of foliar applied products are either completely ineffective or only partially effective, despite deficiency being identified.

It is also why (IMHO) some crop trials - including those conducted by government bodies - have failed to show a response to micronutrients even when analysis indicates deficiency, because they persist in only trialing simple salts (sulphates, carbonates etc.), which demonstrably have low efficacy. Yes, these will often give a transitory greening effect where crops are noticeably deficient, but this effect is usually superficial, penetrating to only one or two cells deep and much remaining on the surface.

It is for this reason that we developed our crop nutrient recommendation system - based on soil and tissue analysis and tailored specifically to each crop/field and growth stage.

At the same time we also put significant effort and research into creating nutrition and biostimulant formulations that are rapidly absorbed by the leaf and conducted into the phloem & xylem for transport/translocation to the growing points, as there is no point making recommendations if the products you apply don't work.

 

[Elmsted]

My predecessor liked his micronutrient tonics in every spring spray mix, having worshipped the God known as Dr Chris Green. Huge spray bills, scorch & no yield boost to prove it. You could see a white layer on the leaves - no wonder no sunlight could get through

Totaly concur having worked with Chris Green the analysis of Emerald cropsci and his very good analysis In the same way as inter row cultivation for weed control in row crops still is regarded as a way to go. Given that the cultivation will probably produce 25 KG of gaseous N which feed the stomata. But the work of Herman Effland from Kiel was valid as the work carried out in Prague when I was lucky enough to be attendance.