Realistic safety advice?

egbert

Member
Where does it end, when we're being advised -from within our own industry- to 'never enter an enclosure with a loose bull or when an unrestrained cow is with a calf'?
It's unrealistic, and leads to what we do every day becoming officially 'ill advised' (read 'negligent')

I was reading this as a slightly built female member of team Egbert left the farmhouse to start bedding up ...including, yes, a loose bull, and several cows and calves.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Where does it end, when we're being advised -from within our own industry- to 'never enter an enclosure with a loose bull or when an unrestrained cow is with a calf'?
It's unrealistic, and leads to what we do every day becoming officially 'ill advised' (read 'negligent')

I was reading this as a slightly built female member of team Egbert left the farmhouse to start bedding up ...including, yes, a loose bull, and several cows and calves.

I suppose the HSE answer would be to have another enclosure where you shut the cattle away while you bed up that one.

The question then is, how do you move the cattle without getting in the pen?
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Where does it end, when we're being advised -from within our own industry- to 'never enter an enclosure with a loose bull or when an unrestrained cow is with a calf'?
It's unrealistic, and leads to what we do every day becoming officially 'ill advised' (read 'negligent')

I was reading this as a slightly built female member of team Egbert left the farmhouse to start bedding up ...including, yes, a loose bull, and several cows and calves.

Do your own risk assessment and go with what the outcome of that tells you. Do it properly though, taking on board the industry advice, but closing to ignore where you are confident that there are strong reasons of impracticability. Be prepared to justify what you do to HSE if they come around too, noting that most of them a decent enough and understand that risk assessment is not a one size fits all. Above all, do it in the way that keeps risk to you and yours and the public as low as is reasonably practicable.
 

egbert

Member
It's not the HSE advice that's caught my eye- I believe they imagine all bulls should live in a tRex proof cage- no...this is from an industry group , which includes the NFU.
 

egbert

Member
I read it in a free paper, group is called 'The Farm Safety Partnership'

Does the HSE advise bulls should live in elephant pens or no?
I'm pretty sure they do, and if you followed the advice i thought they'd given, and went through life thinking all bulls are always dangerous...you'd soon have dangerous bulls.

I'm not anti-safety, and we constantly carry out what some peeeps would call risk assessments,
but there is so much advice -on this- that is so far removed from where i am that i find it difficult to take any of it seriously.
The group under discussion are also advising I should separate livestock from the public wherever possible.

hmm.
Tony Blair dumped public access over most of my enclosed land while i was otherwise engaged in 2001, the public can traverse the common at will, and there's a bridlepath running right through my cattle pens.
And no, i am not going to relocate my cattle pens.
They are in the historic drift lane which runs down through all of the in-bye, where any sane stockman would handle his beasts.
If i made a new lane, and new gateways everywhere, 10 minutes later, everyone would be using that instead.....
It's only because of my livestock that the public are able to walk over my land - unless they're going to burn it on a very regular basis.
I'm inclined to hold that if the public don't like and accept my livestock, they can fudging well go and play where my livestock ain't....we got here first.

Just yesterday, the boy and I were calving a heifer with a breach in the pens, as a pair of walkers came through 6' away, with a very dopey retriever.(I'd seen them coming some time earlier, and shut the bitiest collie in the tractor cab ...she could probably eat quite a lot of retriever in one sitting)
I invited them to stop and watch -luckily it went well, and we soon extracted a sputtering healthy calf.
Engaging with them probably did significant PR good, although I have to say they weren't very communicative. The heifer paid their dog no heed whatsoever, and once calved was intent of her calf.
But apparently, i should shut her away somewhere else.

am i ranting yet?
Think I'll retire to nod.
 

Gulli

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
I read it in a free paper, group is called 'The Farm Safety Partnership'

Does the HSE advise bulls should live in elephant pens or no?
I'm pretty sure they do, and if you followed the advice i thought they'd given, and went through life thinking all bulls are always dangerous...you'd soon have dangerous bulls.
Too true, they can smell your fear

Admittedly some of them don't care if you're scared or not but anyone with an ounce of stock handling ability can tell when it's not a good idea to get into a pen with a bull or cow and calf
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
I read it in a free paper, group is called 'The Farm Safety Partnership'

Does the HSE advise bulls should live in elephant pens or no?
I'm pretty sure they do, and if you followed the advice i thought they'd given, and went through life thinking all bulls are always dangerous...you'd soon have dangerous bulls.

Any chance of a scan/ pic of the free paper?

I'll try and see what HSE have officially published, but it may be a while as it's snowing here and I'm trying to keep my lambs alive in it. :banghead:
 

egbert

Member
Any chance of a scan/ pic of the free paper?

I'll try and see what HSE have officially published, but it may be a while as it's snowing here and I'm trying to keep my lambs alive in it. :banghead:

My mistake...it was in the western morning news ....wouldn't put too much store by anything in there!
And also my mistake, hse guidance re bull pens is for dairy bulls, rather 'stock' bulls was it?

Have tried to attach a pic, although this'll be a first.

and i sympathise re snow. started calving here, in less than ideal conditions.
 

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Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
My mistake...it was in the western morning news ....wouldn't put too much store by anything in there!
And also my mistake, hse guidance re bull pens is for dairy bulls, rather 'stock' bulls was it?

Have tried to attach a pic, although this'll be a first.

and i sympathise re snow. started calving here, in less than ideal conditions.

Pic worked well, thanks. Pretty poor journalism though - take HSE advice, remove the context and add errors!

Even HSE aren’t that great, to be honest - I think that the reference to “enclosures” means pens, not fields, but it’s not clear. That would certainly be my argument if inspected.
 

puppet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
sw scotland
Too true, they can smell your fear

Admittedly some of them don't care if you're scared or not but anyone with an ounce of stock handling ability can tell when it's not a good idea to get into a pen with a bull or cow and calf

All the dead farmers probably thought that too. I have been attacked by 2 calved cows, both I had bedded all winter but became psychos when calved and gave me no warning except a brief twitch of the ears before I was up against the gate. We always separate calves for tagging now.
I know of a poor young chap killed instantly when the bull gave a toss of its head smacking him against a wall.
 

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