rejuvenating sward with clover

[Lewis]

would now be a good time to direct drill some red and white clover into mainly silage fields cut 3-4 time a year to add some extra protein capabilities next year , added source of N and thicken the sward out a bit. also with summers becoming dryer the red should keep a needed bite with deeper root structure in a heat wave. looks to be another 10 days dry but rain will soon come for it to establish or is it best done earlier in the season?

tia

 

[Kevtherev]

Can be done anytime til first week of September but it’s very dry and needs bit of rain to germinate.
Don’t drill too deep.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

As Kev says , if you get rain you be ok, not sort of rain here mind, put grass seed in 3 weeks ago and it's green over , but out in the Cotswolds yesterday I've seen how dry it is ,

 

[Bob c]

would now be a good time to direct drill some red and white clover into mainly silage fields cut 3-4 time a year to add some extra protein capabilities next year , added source of N and thicken the sward out a bit. also with summers becoming dryer the red should keep a needed bite with deeper root structure in a heat wave. looks to be another 10 days dry but rain will soon come for it to establish or is it best done earlier in the season?

tia

Can be done anytime til first week of September but it’s very dry and needs bit of rain to germinate.
Don’t drill too deep.

As Kev says , if you get rain you be ok

As above, but
Yes needs a bit of rain to germinate, But cant be dry afterwoulds
need to be serton we are out of the heatwave
we got anouther 3, 4 days of 33c + coming this next week

You may be lucky and have some rain and keeps coming

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I would not cut them again myself if your putting Clover in as even if you get a good take the grass will get to strong

 

[Bury the Trash]

rip it out /kill old sward and start afresh , lower the grass seed rate dont put any fert in seedbed .
clover will not do well and establish to useful amounts with any sort of competition,it needs space to get its bearings.

Might be boring but No matter what you want to do or what theory is on trend or what sounds clever and novel....... you cant go against nature.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

rip it out /kill old sward and start afresh , lower the grass seed rate dont put any fert in seedbed .
clover will not do well and establish to useful amounts with any sort of competition,it needs space to get its bearings.

Might be boring but No matter what you want to do or what theory is on trend or what sounds clever and novel....... you cant go against nature.

But he's not said what he has , your assuming you know
Lot of my Cutting Leys are open grasses like Hybrids , plenty of room for Clover as they thin a little

 

[Bury the Trash]

i'm not assuming anything, what it says in my post is correct ignore it today but return to it in 20yrs time and it will still be correct.


Im not selling anything either.
happy days.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

i'm not assuming anything, what it says in my post is correct ignore it today but return to it in 20yrs time and it will still be correct.


Im not selling anything either.
happy days.

I'm no arguing with you , but unless you can see the field how do you know it's correct , Clover overseeds better than most grasses apart from Westerwolds , I've given up overseeding grass here but getting good results with Clover , you can poke the I'm selling seed card all you like , I say it how I see it

 

[som farmer]

well our current r/clover IRG ley, is now down to very occasional grass seed heads, brown patches, red and white clover, and fudging docks, and big patches of nothing at all.
might get a light cut again. The idea was to cut early next year, followed by maize, not really to sure what to do now. Overseed with IRG, or w/wold ?

Agree with @derek Hughes, clover, herbs overseed better than grasses, grasses are fine, if conditions are perfect.

We have our own drill, so for us its easy, and we have overseeded with timothy as well as prg, and still will, but a few kg of grass seed, is a lot cheaper than a full reseed, if it works.

Son mentioned trying a r/clover, chicory and a grass, for cutting, any comments ?

 

[Bury the Trash]

well our current r/clover IRG ley, is now down to very occasional grass seed heads, brown patches, red and white clover, and fudging docks, and big patches of nothing at all.
might get a light cut again. The idea was to cut early next year, followed by maize, not really to sure what to do now. Overseed with IRG, or w/wold ?

Agree with @derek Hughes, clover, herbs overseed better than grasses, grasses are fine, if conditions are perfect.

We have our own drill, so for us its easy, and we have overseeded with timothy as well as prg, and still will, but a few kg of grass seed, is a lot cheaper than a full reseed, if it works.

Son mentioned trying a r/clover, chicory and a grass, for cutting, any comments ?

as above i have found that chicory establishes really well ( in our soil fairly well drained loam and even better on the redsoil ) but only without too much competition and space and time to establish. then noces ts away ,well it seems to get everywhere if you let i go to seed/ late cut for hay ,then where those bales go to be feed around the feeder it self seeds , only locally tho mind. doesnt spread unless the seed are taken there.

Only in cultivated seedbed i speak about . in that respect and on the right soil with reasonable fertility its easy peazy to grow.

 

[steveR]

would now be a good time to direct drill some red and white clover into mainly silage fields cut 3-4 time a year to add some extra protein capabilities next year , added source of N and thicken the sward out a bit. also with summers becoming dryer the red should keep a needed bite with deeper root structure in a heat wave. looks to be another 10 days dry but rain will soon come for it to establish or is it best done earlier in the season?

tia

Just done 7ha here with clover R&W, chicory and Plantain. Now waiting on the rain. Ground will be warm so hopefully up and running as soon as it's wet.

 

[Jim75]

If putting fert on mix it in and broadcast it. Works well but you guys in the south will want rain.

 

[som farmer]

as above i have found that chicory establishes really well ( in our soil fairly well drained loam and even better on the redsoil ) but only without too much competition and space and time to establish. then noces ts away ,well it seems to get everywhere if you let i go to seed/ late cut for hay ,then where those bales go to be feed around the feeder it self seeds , only locally tho mind. doesnt spread unless the seed are taken there.

Only in cultivated seedbed i speak about . in that respect and on the right soil with reasonable fertility its easy peazy to grow.

chicory and plantain, grow amazingly here, plantain has become the 75% part of a ley, by self seeding, on a very dry bank, of 2 acres, from aut 20 reseed, what it actually means, is there is a bite there, rather than nothing.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

well our current r/clover IRG ley, is now down to very occasional grass seed heads, brown patches, red and white clover, and fudging docks, and big patches of nothing at all.
might get a light cut again. The idea was to cut early next year, followed by maize, not really to sure what to do now. Overseed with IRG, or w/wold ?

Agree with @derek Hughes, clover, herbs overseed better than grasses, grasses are fine, if conditions are perfect.

We have our own drill, so for us its easy, and we have overseeded with timothy as well as prg, and still will, but a few kg of grass seed, is a lot cheaper than a full reseed, if it works.

Son mentioned trying a r/clover, chicory and a grass, for cutting, any comments ?

You've nothing much to lose by adding Chicory , just not to much or you will have a pit of mush
My mate in Hampshire says the only thing that's growing now there Is Lucerne , can't remember your comment on Lucerne

 

[som farmer]

You've nothing much to lose by adding Chicory , just not to much or you will have a pit of mush
My mate in Hampshire says the only thing that's growing now there Is Lucerne , can't remember your comment on Lucerne

lucerne is a fantastic plant, no doubt about that.
we stopped growing it simply because we didn't have enough acres, to grow maize, lucerne and grass. We have been looking at it again, but its acreage again. To be an effective contribution to a ration, we would need 200 bales, or equivalent pit, to feed a consistent ration to the cows, assuming a 200 day winter, Practically could be less, but for planning, that's the figure.
We are looking hard at home grown protein, as a source to compliment our own rolled wheat/barley, and keep coming up against acres. Feed grade urea, at £1000 ton, takes a bit of beating, but isn't perfect.
Basically been told we can buy beans or peas, cheaper than we can grow them.
The dairy ration isn't as bad, we can quite easily adjust the %'s, in the mixer wagon. Its the y/s ration we were looking at, from a labour saving angle.
No doubt we will end up buying a suitable bag product, usually a 33%protein admix. But all ideas must/should be looked at. The 100 tons of grain, will knock a lot of money, off the cake bill, this winter, and apart from rolling, its all paid for, plus we have the straw.

Have been mulling over using ground hay, as an ingredient, common in other countries, just not in the UK . To increase the profit margins, l feel we have to control the amount of cash, leaving the farm, or reduce COP, as prices can only rise so much, before they become a political hot potato, and the idiotic politicians start interfering, resulting in a massive mess.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

lucerne is a fantastic plant, no doubt about that.
we stopped growing it simply because we didn't have enough acres, to grow maize, lucerne and grass. We have been looking at it again, but its acreage again. To be an effective contribution to a ration, we would need 200 bales, or equivalent pit, to feed a consistent ration to the cows, assuming a 200 day winter, Practically could be less, but for planning, that's the figure.
We are looking hard at home grown protein, as a source to compliment our own rolled wheat/barley, and keep coming up against acres. Feed grade urea, at £1000 ton, takes a bit of beating, but isn't perfect.
Basically been told we can buy beans or peas, cheaper than we can grow them.
The dairy ration isn't as bad, we can quite easily adjust the %'s, in the mixer wagon. Its the y/s ration we were looking at, from a labour saving angle.
No doubt we will end up buying a suitable bag product, usually a 33%protein admix. But all ideas must/should be looked at. The 100 tons of grain, will knock a lot of money, off the cake bill, this winter, and apart from rolling, its all paid for, plus we have the straw.

Have been mulling over using ground hay, as an ingredient, common in other countries, just not in the UK . To increase the profit margins, l feel we have to control the amount of cash, leaving the farm, or reduce COP, as prices can only rise so much, before they become a political hot potato, and the idiotic politicians start interfering, resulting in a massive mess.

Have you thought of a mix , Lucerne and Timothy, that would help with you shortage of grass in the ration

 

[nails]

I would love to sow some grass seed, turnip seed e.t.c but it is so dry and with a hot dry forecast i see little point atm. If it goes on into the autumn i will be putting in Forage Rye which i like but is an expensive seed.

 

[steveR]

If putting fert on mix it in and broadcast it. Works well but you guys in the south will want rain.

We do, We do!!

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Clamping Hybrid Ryegrass/Clover Tonight