Responsibilities for managing water

[awittyusername]

Hi everyone, looking for a bit of advice.

I'm not a farmer, I live in a house that shares a border with a field which we purchased in Aug 22.

It turns out that the field floods during the winter in the corner closest to our house and looking back at historical aerial images on Google maps and street view, it does indeed show signs that this has been a problem for years.

The soil is maybe just over a meter deep (in our garden) before you hit clay and I don't know how deep this runs for. There is a ditch that runs the width of the field where it meets the road that we both face onto, but it doesn't appear to be maintained. There's no evidence of there being a ditch in recent times running the length of the field that borders with us, but during the summer there was a fresh, green strip of wild grasses that ran in a perfectly straight line all the way down from where the flood usually is to the other end of the field. This made me think there was some sort of drainage channel cut in underneath, but it doesn't seem to do anything when the heavens open.

But to cut a long story short, it appears to have been getting worse recently as we know the farmer had the water board sample the water to determine if any of it was from burst pipes. There was a leak, within feet of the edge of the field where it floods which was fixed earlier in the year and we thought, "thank goodness, that was the problem all along."

Well, it turns out it wasn't and the flood is back with a vengeance this year. Both this year and last, the water has caused the water table in this particular corner of the field, and under our house, to rise to such and extent that we have 6 inches of water under the floorboards, the house is perpetually full of condensation, we're forever cleaning mold from the lower corners of rooms downstairs and it's preventing the septic tank from functioning properly, it simply can't drain into our garden.

To make matters worse, the field that was left fallow, he turned this year with the intention of planting wheat which has levelled out the field somewhat and has resulted in the water spreading further than before and it's starting to spread onto our drive and into our garden.

To my mind, this could be solved with either a culvert installing under the road, an auger hole drilling past the clay and backfilling with gravel or a ditch to take the water downhill to the other end of the field where there's an uncultivated patch that has been fenced off - none of which I can do or have a say in as it needs to happen off my land.

I want to stay on the right side of our neighbour, but I don't know how to approach this matter with them because I don't know where I stand morally, legally or what is considered being generally good neighbours in farming circles!

 

[melted welly]

Do you own the field? Your first paragraph reads like you do.

Sounds like there’s a blocked drain, possibly a leader and that’s affecting the field and your septic tank.

Is the septic tank an old concrete chamber affair that is tied into the field drains.

Are your down pipes tied into the septic tank? Shouldn’t be, but sometimes are. If it is a concrete septic, have you tried rodding the outlet to see if you can feel a blockage?

Have you any plans of your house to give indication of drains? Is it a new house recently built in a difficult corner of a wet field or an old thing that’s been there forever?

We had a similar issue but from the other side, we owned the land and a corner of our field plus the neighbours garden was becoming waterlogged. It turned out they had a builder put in a ménage for the horses who’d severed the main drain for about 30ac of land and instead of repairing it, had just backfilled the ménage, covered it up and beggared off. Problem didn’t come to light for several years, hence wondering if it’s a new build house.

 

[awittyusername]

Do you own the field? Your first paragraph reads like you do.

You're right, it does, I was referring to buying the house in 22, which shares a border with a field that we don't own. I'll change that for clarity but thank you for pointing it out

 

[awittyusername]

You're right, it does, I was referring to buying the house in 22, which shares a border with a field that we don't own. I'll change that for clarity but thank you for pointing it out

Can't seem to edit the original. So we bought the house in Aug 22. The house borders a field that we don't own and is flooding in the corner that borders our house.

 

[britt]

It's fairly certain that provisions for drainage will have been made at some point. If the field slopes your way it probably goes under the road. You need to have a dig about to try to find some pipes and clear them and the ditch.
The green line across the field may be an old ditch that was piped. Again you'll need to have a dig to try and find pipes.
The farmer should be keen to solve the problem, as flooded ground is no use to them. Ask if you can help solve the problem and offer to pay towards it.

 

[melted welly]

Can't seem to edit the original. So we bought the house in Aug 22. The house borders a field that we don't own and is flooding in the corner that borders our house.

Not a minor problem. Looking at that. A buggeration factor might be the road. Round here roadside ditches were piped to widen the road, using porous concrete pipes which now, 50 yr later, are crumbling and choked with roots. Council not interested, no money.

Where does the water come from? Is it the field or is it running in off the road?

 

[Jackov Altraids]

You have my sympathies and pray you find a simple solution.
I would consider talking to the neighbour, taking out the garden hedge and replacing it with a wall that is built on the clay to act as a barrier.
It looks a bit like it could be a natural 'pan' and I suspect nobody will volunteer to take 'extra water'.
There will be many more thousands in your position as the Government listen to idiots like George Monbiot who want fields flooded, trees planted and areas rewilded.
But hey, on the bright side you might get to watch a cute beaver.

 

[awittyusername]

It's fairly certain that provisions for drainage will have been made at some point. If the field slopes your way it probably goes under the road. You need to have a dig about to try to find some pipes and clear them and the ditch.
The green line across the field may be an old ditch that was piped. Again you'll need to have a dig to try and find pipes.
The farmer should be keen to solve the problem, as flooded ground is no use to them. Ask if you can help solve the problem and offer to pay towards it.

When he was turning I took the opportunity to talk to him and said we were hopeful that the water board had found the issue and that we wouldn't see a repeat, and he echoed that. But he did also say that they had already had a good look at the area to try and find an old culvert that maybe needed pulling through but sadly, there was none.

That was my thinking with the green line so it makes me hopeful that there's half a solution there already.

As you say, it's in their interest to have that land back. I don't know what 1/3 of an acre of wheat is worth per year and if it's worth it to them but it really is to us so we would certainly go halves with them to take the sting out of any remedial work needed.

 

[som farmer]

massive new road works close to us. Storm drains meant to take run-off away from local village.

Only they got it slightly wrong, drains take the water to the village. Several houses have had water in, the company that is doing the work, is trying to find out why the drains run the wrong way, and who is responsible

one would imagine its a major cock-up, to which no-one wants to admit responsibility for.

 

[awittyusername]

Not a minor problem. Looking at that. A buggeration factor might be the road. Round here roadside ditches were piped to widen the road, using porous concrete pipes which now, 50 yr later, are crumbling and choked with roots. Council not interested, no money.

Where does the water come from? Is it the field or is it running in off the road?

No, it's fairly significant and it's a worry what it's doing to the house we put all of our savings into!

It seems strange to me that when the road was re-done, there wasn't a culvert put in, there are culverts further up and down but not here.

The road has drains that the council have inspected and they assure us (as un-comforting as that is!) that they're sound. The road actually rises a little across the run of the field so it shouldn't be that. It can really only be from the field. But it does seem a lot of water for the amount of field that slopes to us, the rest runs away.

 

[awittyusername]

You have my sympathies and pray you find a simple solution.
I would consider talking to the neighbour, taking out the garden hedge and replacing it with a wall that is built on the clay to act as a barrier.
It looks a bit like it could be a natural 'pan' and I suspect nobody will volunteer to take 'extra water'.
There will be many more thousands in your position as the Government listen to idiots like George Monbiot who want fields flooded, trees planted and areas rewilded.
But hey, on the bright side you might get to watch a cute beaver.

Thank you

Yes I do want to talk to them, just trying to work out what a reasonable and fair approach would be to try and steer the conversation toward.

It probably wouldn't be a problem save for the road which has effectively dammed the water in. On the other side of the road, the fields run away quite steeply toward a stream so I don't think the extra water going that way would be a concern. And if we could divert it to the other end of the field, that runs away to a patch or scrub land that's fences off and uncultivated so would also be ideal.

We have ducks now though, so there is a bright side

 

[awittyusername]

massive new road works close to us. Storm drains meant to take run-off away from local village.

Only they got it slightly wrong, drains take the water to the village. Several houses have had water in, the company that is doing the work, is trying to find out why the drains run the wrong way, and who is responsible

one would imagine its a major cock-up, to which no-one wants to admit responsibility for.

You may be right, the council have washed their hands of it (pun intended). Unfortunately we feel quite alone in it without the weight of any other interested parties to try and persuade them to give the issue more attention.

 

[Dry Rot]

By coincidence, I have been looking up some old legislation I used to bring my neighbours into line a few decades ago when my land flooded and I was wondering how to find out if the legislation is still in effect or has it been repealed?

I am in Scotland but as is often the case,I think there is parallel legislation in England and Wales. It is the Land Drainage (Scotland) Act 1930 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/20-21/20/body?view=plain) and it does/did empower a landowner to serve a notice on a neighbour to clean his ditches where obstructions were/are causing water a back up and cause damage. I used that to good effect and was even consulted by my own solicitor who was advising another of his clients! This only refers to water in a defined channel (e.g. a ditch).

Can anyone tell me if that legislation is still in effect or has it been repealed?

 

[Cropper]

Sorry to hear of your situation, it must be a big worry.
I think if you were to ask the landowner to do work on their land I’d be inclined to offer to pay for all the work as the benefit to you will far outweigh the benefit to them and would effectively compensate them for any inconvenience to them.

 

[Devil's advocate]

I believe there is a machine called a mole that will dig under the road.

No doubt all the permits will be a bigger issue.

Maybe you need to consult a drainage contractor (not a man with a digger) or even a land agent.

Try to keep the farmer on board, that flooded area is COSTING him money.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Sorry to hear of your situation, it must be a big worry.
I think if you were to ask the landowner to do work on their land I’d be inclined to offer to pay for all the work as the benefit to you will far outweigh the benefit to them and would effectively compensate them for any inconvenience to them.

I think its a joint one, but certainly not for the farmer to pay 100%.

 

[Cropper]

By coincidence, I have been looking up some old legislation I used to bring my neighbours into line a few decades ago when my land flooded and I was wondering how to find out if the legislation is still in effect or has it been repealed?

I am in Scotland but as is often the case,I think there is parallel legislation in England and Wales. It is the Land Drainage (Scotland) Act 1930 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/20-21/20/body?view=plain) and it does/did empower a landowner to serve a notice on a neighbour to clean his ditches where obstructions were/are causing water a back up and cause damage. I used that to good effect and was even consulted by my own solicitor who was advising another of his clients! This only refers to water in a defined channel (e.g. a ditch).

Can anyone tell me if that legislation is still in effect or has it been repealed?

Judging the effectiveness of the environment agency in keeping rivers clear in England I’d assume it is no longer in effect as the excuse not to do anything is usually that they aren’t allowed to disturb the wildlife!

 

[workin f nowt]

Not knowing where abouts in the country you are but in my area Yorkshire Water can repair a leak today and because of the state of the pipes another appears 2 day later. Mains pipes loose alot of water if leaking. Can you see movement as in flowing water or is it just sat not draining away. As said before old drain deteriorate and people don't always know where they are. Have same problem with land standing in water due to weather but fortunately not affecting mine or anyone else's property. Contact the farmer as I'm sure he will not want your property damaged either. Trust me most are approachable. Hope you resolve this issue

 

[Dry Rot]

Judging the effectiveness of the environment agency in keeping rivers clear in England I’d assume it is no longer in effect as the excuse not to do anything is usually that they aren’t allowed to disturb the wildlife!

Yes, I think you are probably right. Up here it will be the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA) who are equally useless.

 

[Samcowman]

Hi everyone, looking for a bit of advice.

I'm not a farmer, I live in a house that shares a border with a field which we purchased in Aug 22.

It turns out that the field floods during the winter in the corner closest to our house and looking back at historical aerial images on Google maps and street view, it does indeed show signs that this has been a problem for years.

The soil is maybe just over a meter deep (in our garden) before you hit clay and I don't know how deep this runs for. There is a ditch that runs the width of the field where it meets the road that we both face onto, but it doesn't appear to be maintained. There's no evidence of there being a ditch in recent times running the length of the field that borders with us, but during the summer there was a fresh, green strip of wild grasses that ran in a perfectly straight line all the way down from where the flood usually is to the other end of the field. This made me think there was some sort of drainage channel cut in underneath, but it doesn't seem to do anything when the heavens open.

But to cut a long story short, it appears to have been getting worse recently as we know the farmer had the water board sample the water to determine if any of it was from burst pipes. There was a leak, within feet of the edge of the field where it floods which was fixed earlier in the year and we thought, "thank goodness, that was the problem all along."

Well, it turns out it wasn't and the flood is back with a vengeance this year. Both this year and last, the water has caused the water table in this particular corner of the field, and under our house, to rise to such and extent that we have 6 inches of water under the floorboards, the house is perpetually full of condensation, we're forever cleaning mold from the lower corners of rooms downstairs and it's preventing the septic tank from functioning properly, it simply can't drain into our garden.

To make matters worse, the field that was left fallow, he turned this year with the intention of planting wheat which has levelled out the field somewhat and has resulted in the water spreading further than before and it's starting to spread onto our drive and into our garden.

To my mind, this could be solved with either a culvert installing under the road, an auger hole drilling past the clay and backfilling with gravel or a ditch to take the water downhill to the other end of the field where there's an uncultivated patch that has been fenced off - none of which I can do or have a say in as it needs to happen off my land.

I want to stay on the right side of our neighbour, but I don't know how to approach this matter with them because I don't know where I stand morally, legally or what is considered being generally good neighbours in farming circles!

Sounds terrible being made worse by the extremely wet weather this backend. You said there was a ditch that isn’t maintained. My first thing would be to get that ditch dug properly and if there is another on the opposite side of the road try to get that done as well. Quite often digging an old ditch out well will reveal drains and culverts long forgotten.
If a householder with your concerns offered to hire in the digger for me to do the digging I could see no problem with that.