Restrictive Covenants

[Turniptop]

Apologies.. I’m not a farmer but do live in a very rural area. I‘m actually a teacher. We are looking at buying a farmhouse with 3 acres of land. The idea is to convert the outbuildings so we can run courses and provide extra accommodation etc. The property we are looking at is great but... the restrictions seem to be like signing a blank cheque. The farmer will continue to use the track down to his outbuildings ( and our farmhouse) but we are liable for 50% of the maintenance. This is also used by the public ( hundreds of cars) for a month a year as he sells direct from his outbuildings. We are liable for replacing the septic tank but aren’t allowed to use it if we add additional accommodation and the farmer can shoot rats in our garden, have a pheasant shoot in the garden and park his tractor at the front .
i wouldn’t want to stop the farmer from working but am I being a terrible nimby?

 

[wilfholme]

Presumably these conditions are reflected in the price of the holding. Maybe there is a negotiation to be had with the help of good solicitor advice

 

[Werzle]

Apologies.. I’m not a farmer but do live in a very rural area. I‘m actually a teacher. We are looking at buying a farmhouse with 3 acres of land. The idea is to convert the outbuildings so we can run courses and provide extra accommodation etc. The property we are looking at is great but... the restrictions seem to be like signing a blank cheque. The farmer will continue to use the track down to his outbuildings ( and our farmhouse) but we are liable for 50% of the maintenance. This is also used by the public ( hundreds of cars) for a month a year as he sells direct from his outbuildings. We are liable for replacing the septic tank but aren’t allowed to use it if we add additional accommodation and the farmer can shoot rats in our garden, have a pheasant shoot in the garden and park his tractor at the front .
i wouldn’t want to stop the farmer from working but am I being a terrible nimby?

Tell the the agent you are happy to buy it but without the restrictions you dont like, if they won't remove them dont buy it. More and more uplift clauses etc being added nowadays which is harming property sales . Good many farmers are trying to sell part of their farmyards that they cannot afford to maintain(old farmhouses and traditional barns) but trying to influence what goes on after so they can try to carry on farming nr it. They cant have it both ways unless they are willing to take a price reduction

 

[teslacoils]

Thing is, it's up to you / your solicitor to either alter these; agree to them; or decline to purchase. Noone is twisting your arm to sign.

The share of the maintenance could be changed.
The shooting rights for game and vermin could be restricted to the 3ac and not the residential garden.
The septic tank is no real issue as you could easily add another one on your 3ac for any additional accomodation.
I'd suggest he park his tractor in his shed - sounds like your solicitor here is merely pointing out the "potential" problems, but a tractor parked on my bit to vex me when it could be elsewhere could come to all manner of tragic ends for the tractor .

Negotiation, or walk.

 

[Turniptop]

Presumably these conditions are reflected in the price of the holding. Maybe there is a negotiation to be had with the help of good solicitor advice

Thankyou - I think negotiation is the way forward.

 

[Turniptop]

Tell the the agent you are happy to buy it but without the restrictions you dont like, if they won't remove them dont buy it. More and more uplift clauses etc being added nowadays which is harming property sales . Good many farmers are trying to sell part of their farmyards that they cannot afford to maintain(old farmhouses and traditional barns) but trying to influence what goes on after so they can try to carry on farming nr it. They cant have it both ways unless they are willing to take a price reduction

thanks for that . I think I said to the agent that they cant have their cake and eat it really.

 

[Turniptop]

Thing is, it's up to you / your solicitor to either alter these; agree to them; or decline to purchase. Noone is twisting your arm to sign.

The share of the maintenance could be changed.
The shooting rights for game and vermin could be restricted to the 3ac and not the residential garden.
The septic tank is no real issue as you could easily add another one on your 3ac for any additional accomodation.
I'd suggest he park his tractor in his shed - sounds like your solicitor here is merely pointing out the "potential" problems, but a tractor parked on my bit to vex me when it could be elsewhere could come to all manner of tragic ends for the tractor .

Negotiation, or walk.

Thanks for that - I think perhaps the farmer wants to clear the air prior to the sale but I also think he is struggling to ‘let go’ of the old farmhouse and I understand that feeling as it has been the family home for a long time.

 

[serf]

I would run for the hills ,sounds like he wants his cake and eat it , your life will be a while lot of grief from the get go with all them cars and people about going to and fro, surely theres plenty of places about without all these restrictions on to buy ,

 

[serf]

Covenants have their place but I think this is OTT

 

[teslacoils]

Thanks for that - I think perhaps the farmer wants to clear the air prior to the sale but I also think he is struggling to ‘let go’ of the old farmhouse and I understand that feeling as it has been the family home for a long time.

I once bought a farm where the previous owner retained the right for just him and his dog to walk up the track for the rest of his life. I thought that was quite sweet.

You could do similar for the vermin control ie you could grant *him* the right to do it while he lives. They probably fear a scruffy, wild rat haven next to them. And really, unless you a concerned with rat rights, do you really want to be out shooting vermin?

The drive maintenance is potentially the trickiest as noone can predict the future. Shared drives are a nightmare. I suggest adding something to the extent of some preamble that, while not legally binding, explains the position at the time of sale, and a clause to mediate any costs over an amount via a local agent who's fees are shared. You may find the clause for maintenance of a shared drive is longer than the rest of the sales paperwork.

But it's all doable. Just remember that solicitors *hate* just ringing the other solicitor up and getting it sorted. Several times their pedantry (my wife is one, I know the score and how they have to explain everything) has resulted in us as purchasers just going round to the vendors for a cup of tea and a chat to hammer out what we both want, then getting the legals on speakerphone and telling them to "make it so". Solicitor will word it as "but they could legally do *this*..." Which may be entirety wide of the intent.

 

[betweenthelines]

Once looked at buying a house on the Duke of Bedford estate. One of the covenants was that we had to get written permission to get a dog. We didn't look for long!

However in the OP I can see a logic behind the reasons for the Covenants-the vendor wishes to continue to use his property as he wishes, to control vermin coming onto his property and to ensure that the property he is selling isn't developed out of all recognition.

There's a current thread on TFF about a neighbour allowing/encouraging his pet sheep to stray, and lots of threads over time about property access and maintenance disputes.

In this case, I'm with the vendor!

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Until it's sold, everything is up for the negotiation. Put a line through all the conditions of sale and see a, how much he wants your money and b, which conditions he really will not budge on. c, reach a compromise.

Now write it out a hundred times, if it's not done by sunrise I'll cut yer balls off

 

[Tarw Coch]

Apologies.. I’m not a farmer but do live in a very rural area. I‘m actually a teacher. We are looking at buying a farmhouse with 3 acres of land. The idea is to convert the outbuildings so we can run courses and provide extra accommodation etc. The property we are looking at is great but... the restrictions seem to be like signing a blank cheque. The farmer will continue to use the track down to his outbuildings ( and our farmhouse) but we are liable for 50% of the maintenance. This is also used by the public ( hundreds of cars) for a month a year as he sells direct from his outbuildings. We are liable for replacing the septic tank but aren’t allowed to use it if we add additional accommodation and the farmer can shoot rats in our garden, have a pheasant shoot in the garden and park his tractor at the front .
i wouldn’t want to stop the farmer from working but am I being a terrible nimby?

Wanting to shoot rats or pheasants in your garden is taking the p!ss.
Where is the septic tank located, on your property or his? If on his I can understand him wanting restrictions on its use, more properties added to it could well lead to more problems, if on your property I can’t see how it’s any of his concern, and with 3 acres surely you have enough of land if you need additional septic tank capacity.
Not sure why he’d want the right to park his tractor in front of your house, are we talking a few feet or quite a distance?
The right to use and responsibility for maintenance of the track is not unreasonable, it’s certainly what I would want if in his position, although you may feel he is getting more use out of it and therefore the better end of the deal he can’t be sure of your future plans or amount of use it will get.

Don’t know about the size and type of the outbuildings but I’m surprised he hasn’t put some sort of clause on the development of them.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I would not allow any kind of bizarre arrangement where someone was legally entitled to shoot in a 3 acre patch of land that I owned and which adjoined my own house. There is no way it could possibly be legal to use a weapon in such close proximity to a dwelling that didn't belong to you anyway so best point that out to your legal bod for starters.

 

[serf]

Just less grief to walk away from the situation and find somewhere that you have control over , there would be hardly anyone on here who would buy into a situation like this , putting there hard earned on the line .

 

[Kidds]

Generally speaking farmers can be complete arseholes, don't agree to any of it. In fact I would go so far as to say don't buy it on any terms if he is your neighbour. You are heading for disaster in my experienced opinion and that is coming from a farmer.
Let me know if you want an endless list if real life examples.

 

[betweenthelines]

Read the OP again guys! Buyer wants to convert buildings to "run courses and provide extra accommodation" so is clearly intending to set up some sort of Residential School.-which could be anything from a Steiner type set up to a privately run borstal! How many of you would be happy to gain that as a near neighbour?

Like I said, I'm with the vendor on this

 

[Turniptop]

Generally speaking farmers can be complete arseholes, don't agree to any of it. In fact I would go so far as to say don't buy it on any terms if he is your neighbour. You are heading for disaster in my experienced opinion and that is coming from a farmer.
Let me know if you want an endless list if real life examples.

I went for a further look yesterday . They want to keep all their farm dogs on our drive in big cages . Think it’s a no

 

[Turniptop]

Read the OP again guys! Buyer wants to convert buildings to "run courses and provide extra accommodation" so is clearly intending to set up some sort of Residential School.-which could be anything from a Steiner type set up to a privately run borstal! How many of you would be happy to gain that as a near neighbour?

Like I said, I'm with the vendor on this

I was going for the borstal option to keep the neighbours happy . Anyway it’s a no - the cages of farm dogs in the driveway put me off a bit !

 

[Turniptop]

Just less grief to walk away from the situation and find somewhere that you have control over , there would be hardly anyone on here who would buy into a situation like this , putting there hard earned on the line .

I am running for the hills ... it’s a definite no . Having visited again I was put off by the cages of dogs that are kept on the driveway to the property .