Salt 'n' Vinegar with that?

[Pasty]

Still can't get anyone to drink roundup though.

 

[multi power]

Still can't get anyone to drink roundup though.

Apparently it's safe to drink, unlike paraquat etc

 

[Runwood]

Someone might find the following of use:

Weed Killers: Salt & Vinegar

Add common table salt to vinegar to destroy weeds for good in these trouble spots. Just make sure to never pour the salt mixture on soil, as the solution will make sure that nothing grows in that spot again.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/use-vinegar-salt-weed-killer-49329.html

Acetic acid is what makes vinegar a weed killer. Actually, it makes vinegar a plant killer. Acetic acid, from any source, will kill most vegetation because it draws all the moisture out of the leaf.

It is fast. Spraying full strength vinegar on a plant in full sun will often result in a withered, brown plant in only a few hours, for sensitive weeds, or by the next day in tougher plants.

It is non-selective, meaning it might kill everything it touches. This limits the usefulness of a vinegar weed killer, to the extent that you are able to control over-spray that would get on desirable plants.

http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-care.com/vinegar-weed-killer.html

 

[Pasty]

Apparently it's safe to drink, unlike paraquat etc

So why can't they get anyone from Monsanto to put it on their fish and chips and munch away? Actions speak louder than words. If it's safe then it's safe.

 

[M-J-G]

With regards to certs, you will get away with lots of things for a long time. A theory that many seem happy to run their businesses on.

I've had my PA1,2&6 for close on 20 years now and never been asked for it once.

I have also had a car for as long, and I've never been asked for license, Insurance, tax or MOT. The same with qualifications for things like forklift, chainsaw, sheep dipping, AI etc.

Like everything, you can wing it on a good day, but if there is an accident or a situation where someone is to be held accountable for liability, untrained operators are not looked upon favourably and are just what insurance companies are looking for to avoid paying compensation.

 

[NZDan]

Yes it is. Water can kill you if you drink too much. The point being that I am not going to worry if my or anyone else's kids come back to the house with salt and vinegar on their fingers and then grab a sandwich. If they come back with triclopyr and clopyralid on their fingers, it may not be such a good outcome.

Could my goats eat too much recently salted thistle and get an issue? I guess that's a possibility.

Parts of Oz have huge problems with salt.
I'd be quite worried about the effect salt will have on micro flaura in the soil. Just because it occurs naturally and is commonly available doesn't mean its suitable or safe to use.
And i hope your Triclopyr and Clopyralid isn't where the kids are able to access it.

 

[NZDan]

So why can't they get anyone from Monsanto to put it on their fish and chips and munch away? Actions speak louder than words. If it's safe then it's safe.

Why would they? Just because something is not poisonous at low levels doesn't mean it should be used in an improper manner.
Salt and vinegar works wonder at killing things, it kills everything bacteria, fungi, earthworms, everything!!!!! it's great on driveways because nothing regrows.
Commercially available herbicides are well tested and licensed for use in certain situations with knowledge on what they do and don't affect.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Why would they? Just because something is not poisonous at low levels doesn't mean it should be used in an improper manner.
Salt and vinegar works wonder at killing things, it kills everything bacteria, fungi, earthworms, everything!!!!! it's great on driveways because nothing regrows.
Commercially available herbicides are well tested and licensed for use in certain situations with knowledge on what they do and don't affect.

Strange, because the complete opposite has happened here. Earthworms and invertebrates went up 40-50% a month after the salt application, compared to the area I left as control. (That was using a sieve and only going down 4 inches but I only applied 20kg/ha or so, so didn't go deeper) the only thing that was more abundant in the untreated area was thatch and slugs.
Perhaps I just got lucky with timing?

 

[Pasty]

Parts of Oz have huge problems with salt.
I'd be quite worried about the effect salt will have on micro flaura in the soil. Just because it occurs naturally and is commonly available doesn't mean its suitable or safe to use.
And i hope your Triclopyr and Clopyralid isn't where the kids are able to access it.

I don't have any of the latter mentioned chemicals. I'm not sure I would be allowed to buy them as I don't have any tickets for spraying. That was kind of my point. My kids won't come back with it on their hands as I won't be using it. I don't have to remove stock or worry about my or anyone else's pets or kids getting in there and licking a thistle in the following 7 days.

Back on salt, I've been applying a small amount directly into the centre of the plant in the hope it will suck it up and overwhelm it. It may not work but I feel the risk of soil damage is low, not least because salt is used anyway and occurs naturally in soils. Sodium being required to grow plants. Of course too much of anything is a bad thing but then 1000 thistle plants to the acre is not so great for grazing performance either. They literally shade out the grass in high summer.

It's a bit of an experiment really. I tried July strimming last year and that has knocked them in places but had no effect in others. I suspect I went too late. At the end of the day I can go nuclear but I believe it's always better to try 'kinder' options first and to be honest I am under-stocked at the moment so it's a good time for me to play about with pastures as I will certainly not run out of grass this year or next.

 

[exmoor dave]

I don't have any of the latter mentioned chemicals. I'm not sure I would be allowed to buy them as I don't have any tickets for spraying. That was kind of my point. My kids won't come back with it on their hands as I won't be using it. I don't have to remove stock or worry about my or anyone else's pets or kids getting in there and licking a thistle in the following 7 days.

Back on salt, I've been applying a small amount directly into the centre of the plant in the hope it will suck it up and overwhelm it. It may not work but I feel the risk of soil damage is low, not least because salt is used anyway and occurs naturally in soils. Sodium being required to grow plants. Of course too much of anything is a bad thing but then 1000 thistle plants to the acre is not so great for grazing performance either. They literally shade out the grass in high summer.

It's a bit of an experiment really. I tried July strimming last year and that has knocked them in places but had no effect in others. I suspect I went too late. At the end of the day I can go nuclear but I believe it's always better to try 'kinder' options first and to be honest I am under-stocked at the moment so it's a good time for me to play about with pastures as I will certainly not run out of grass this year or next.

Could do what dad did for years til his hips needed changing....... get a good pair of gloves and pluck the creeping thistles out!


We dig spears/ scotches with a mattock

 

[Pasty]

Always pull a few on my dog walks. Not sure it helps though with creeping ones.

 

[Greenbeast]

Where's the fun in that?

I like you

 

[multi power]

@Pasty why not get a "lazy dog" easily pull the roots out and gone forever

 

[Pasty]

@Pasty why not get a "lazy dog" easily pull the roots out and gone forever

Yeah. Just been reading a book about organic pasture management and said something about creeping thistle and pulling. I'll have to go back and find the bit now. Interesting book but a lot to take in late at night.

 

[exmoor dave]

Always pull a few on my dog walks. Not sure it helps though with creeping ones.

Got to keep doing it!

Dad did clear alot doing it.


Topper or sprayer now though

 

[Henarar]

dad always said cut them before it rains and the rain will go down the stem and rot them
not sure if it works

 

[Pasty]

dad always said cut them before it rains and the rain will go down the stem and rot them
not sure if it works

My dad says that too. Not convinced myself but that's twice I've heard the same thing so maybe there is something in it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I'll give it a third vote.
I did some digging on that, the fungus verticillium dahliae seems to be present more in the rain, or rapidly grows in damp conditions at least. By mowing in the rain it gets spread around and helps infect the cut stems/roots of the thistle and aids in the dieback.
Not sure if you have Californian thistle but you don't want it. Here it's a curse, and mowing as many times as poss is the best way of dealing with them. They have a spreading underground rhizome, one plant with many many tops (clones), so the best way to deplete the root is to reduce its ability to photosynthesize.
Spraying works, but mowing has less side effects. And mulching is fractionally more effective than a disc mower.
Suspect your creeping thistle might be controlled in a similar fashion?

 

[Pasty]

Probably. I'm tackling the big plants at the moment to try and stop them seeding. I'm hoping my useless goats will like the flowers when they appear. Couple other places on the farm where I have a lot of smaller plants taking over so need to address that as well this year.

 

[exmoor dave]

I'll give it a third vote.
I did some digging on that, the fungus verticillium dahliae seems to be present more in the rain, or rapidly grows in damp conditions at least. By mowing in the rain it gets spread around and helps infect the cut stems/roots of the thistle and aids in the dieback.
Not sure if you have Californian thistle but you don't want it. Here it's a curse, and mowing as many times as poss is the best way of dealing with them. They have a spreading underground rhizome, one plant with many many tops (clones), so the best way to deplete the root is to reduce its ability to photosynthesize.
Spraying works, but mowing has less side effects. And mulching is fractionally more effective than a disc mower.
Suspect your creeping thistle might be controlled in a similar fashion?

Got a feeling creeping and californian thistles are the same thing.

Done loads with Thistlex last few years....... same patches still keep coming up