Sam3 adding herbal to existing grass
- Thread starter willy
- Start date
- Location
- Hammerwich
- Location
- Yorks
Sorry, never done it.
Neighbour had success with clover (just clover), throwing on surface after a silage cut, then trampled in and grazed dearly hard with sheep for a while. Was into an existing ley though (rather than pp with a thick thatch).
Neighbour had success with clover (just clover), throwing on surface after a silage cut, then trampled in and grazed dearly hard with sheep for a while. Was into an existing ley though (rather than pp with a thick thatch).
- Location
- somerset
just over seed them, or include them in a reseed.
but buy the herbs as straights, and mix in to a ley, rather than buying an off the shelf mix, it works out a lot cheaper.
we rotationally graze ours, set stocking could quite easily graze out the herbs
started growing herbs, and 'other' grasses, in a bid to ensure summer grazing, as we dry out. They work.
so for us, SAM 3, is a no brainer, £151 ac, for doing nothing different !
but buy the herbs as straights, and mix in to a ley, rather than buying an off the shelf mix, it works out a lot cheaper.
we rotationally graze ours, set stocking could quite easily graze out the herbs
started growing herbs, and 'other' grasses, in a bid to ensure summer grazing, as we dry out. They work.
so for us, SAM 3, is a no brainer, £151 ac, for doing nothing different !
When you say oversees them, what system do you use? Harrow seeder or disc or what
- Location
- somerset
- Location
- somerset
how long is a piece of string ?
glyphosate + sprayer
single or double drill
we had couple of bits drilled for us, last spring, as we were busy. £26 a pass, for not a good job ! Drilled to deep. And expensive.
seed price can be anything from £60 to £110, the 'best' way is to buy a more permanent type ley, and buy the herbs separately. Cotswold seeds are a good website to get information, and they sell 'herbs' by the 1kg.
we have had success d/d ourselves, with our vaderstaat drill, single pass, usually bulk the seed up with timothy and clover, 4 kg acre, its a huge amount of actual seeds. But the ground cover, has to be open, to give the seed chance to germinate.
glyphosate + sprayer
single or double drill
we had couple of bits drilled for us, last spring, as we were busy. £26 a pass, for not a good job ! Drilled to deep. And expensive.
seed price can be anything from £60 to £110, the 'best' way is to buy a more permanent type ley, and buy the herbs separately. Cotswold seeds are a good website to get information, and they sell 'herbs' by the 1kg.
we have had success d/d ourselves, with our vaderstaat drill, single pass, usually bulk the seed up with timothy and clover, 4 kg acre, its a huge amount of actual seeds. But the ground cover, has to be open, to give the seed chance to germinate.
- Location
- Acton Scott, South Shropshire
Looking like we will have quite a bit to do for ourselves and customers. Depending upon what is already in the leys some will be direct drilling (Duncan drill) of a reseed (grass mixture plus added legumes/herbs bought as straights) potentially after a dose of glyphosate in really old leys, some will be direct drilling of straights of herbs and legumes into existing (good) leys, some will be full reseeds (plough) most likely sown with the Bullock Tillage air seeder. Horses for courses
- Location
- somerset
most herbs, up to a few years ago, were classed as weeds. And if they like your soil, grow like them, if they don't, they struggle. But to comply with the rules, if you include them, good enough.
we started growing chicory and plantain, to help keep some feed, in front of the dairy, in summer, as we dry out. They extend the summer grazing, and cattle like them. We would grow them without the sub, so bonus for us.
Anyone have an interpretation of how long a herbal ley needs to be down after seeding to fulfill its objective of varied root structures, improve and maintain soil structure, carbon and biology?
Very similar objective to sam2. Thinking could plant end aug begin sept take a cut then slip it into maize start of May?
Very similar objective to sam2. Thinking could plant end aug begin sept take a cut then slip it into maize start of May?
- Location
- Oxfordshire
Very expensive mix to keep for that short space of time, much better going with SAM2
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Hi, I will rise to the bait. I think Defra have a view farmers will plant herbal leys for a longer term use. Not as an alternative £382 overwinter cover crop. As I have said a few times in these threads the SFI budget ain't going to reach very far!
- Location
- Essex
£50 to £60 per hectare plus seed.
Clovers are £5 or £6 a kilo, some species less, some species more.
My advice from experience, is that trying to sow into a existing sward is a waste of seed.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
I have done it into ryegrass mixes and had reasonable success.
Older pastures are a no.
A sniff of gly will help if you want to overseed. Is the term 'chemical topping'?
Older pastures are a no.
A sniff of gly will help if you want to overseed. Is the term 'chemical topping'?
Agree ref the budget but can we be too concerned about that at present? We are all trying to favorably interpret andincorporate the rules to work alongside what we are doing.
Its eligible for temporary grass and doesnt specify a time frame to be down.
Maybe half the cost of the sam3 payment but will have a saleable crop at the end of it whilst still meeting criteria
- Location
- somerset
make hay, while the sun shines, is how we look at it.
and don't lock into any long term commitments on any of it. As said on here, will the money last ? The answer has to be, assume not.
if you practice a rotation, rather than mono culture, l think there is things that will suit quite well.
then there are water board schemes, that are not very different to some of SFI ones, could these be 'safer' long term, money wise ? The w/board being rather keen to improve its 'image', which with the river contamination, is exceedingly poor, not sure why .............
one has to consider all the options, and only pick the ones that fit into your system, easily.
- Location
- Oxfordshire
I you think you can convince an inspector what you are doing is correct go ahead, but I think its taking the pee
Isn't this the problem that we are expected to do this with no hard & fast rules or expectations, if you can just scatter herbal ley seeds into an existing ley & still qualify why would anyone bother with anything more, there has to be some kind of guidance for this to work & not be yet another pointless exercise.