Scotland new sub’s and AECS

[jock t]

So during her speech at NFU Scotlands AGM, Mairi Gougeon, cabinet secretary for agriculture, detailed out their ‘route map to agriculture reform’ and the ‘list of measures’ that will be fitted into the new tier system. All good so far but still no detail of how much of their budget will be directed to agriculture.
My current Agri Environment and Climate Scheme has run its 5 year course this year and I was planning on putting an application in to run for the next 5 years. But when I read the list of measures that looks like could be attached to the new sub system, that we look to be starting to move to by 2025, a large part of the list of measures is what I would be doing under AECS, Grass margins, over wintered stubble, wild bird cover, species diverse grass.
The scheme has worked well for us with some capital item work done along with bringing in another source if income regardless of what the weather does.
I now don’t think I can risk going into an AECS contract as it could affect my future subs. I can’t put another grass margin along a water course if there’s already one there!
Anyone else had a thought on this? Or be careful before you enter an AECS contract.

 

[hoyboy]

So during her speech at NFU Scotlands AGM, Mairi Gougeon, cabinet secretary for agriculture, detailed out their ‘route map to agriculture reform’ and the ‘list of measures’ that will be fitted into the new tier system. All good so far but still no detail of how much of their budget will be directed to agriculture.
My current Agri Environment and Climate Scheme has run its 5 year course this year and I was planning on putting an application in to run for the next 5 years. But when I read the list of measures that looks like could be attached to the new sub system, that we look to be starting to move to by 2025, a large part of the list of measures is what I would be doing under AECS, Grass margins, over wintered stubble, wild bird cover, species diverse grass.
The scheme has worked well for us with some capital item work done along with bringing in another source if income regardless of what the weather does.
I now don’t think I can risk going into an AECS contract as it could affect my future subs. I can’t put another grass margin along a water course if there’s already one there!
Anyone else had a thought on this? Or be careful before you enter an AECS contract.

What have they changed? I thought the aecs options just looked very similar to previous versions but with a few less options. How does an aecs contract affect future subs?

 

[jock t]

If you open the attached link it lists the option that they are proposing to put into the new subs tier system, it has many options that are the same as current AECS. So if we take a new AECS contract now it could possibly effect the new subs payment?

Agricultural Reform List of Measures

Information on the draft list of measures for the Agricultural Reform Programme.

www.ruralpayments.org

 

[willie waver]

never received a penny from AECS or capital items, hopefully they'll keep a bit of money for us food producers rather than the subsidy junkies

 

[hoyboy]

If you open the attached link it lists the option that they are proposing to put into the new subs tier system, it has many options that are the same as current AECS. So if we take a new AECS contract now it could possibly effect the new subs payment?

Agricultural Reform List of Measures

Information on the draft list of measures for the Agricultural Reform Programme.

www.ruralpayments.org

Yea I see what you mean. That pretty much reads as one big AECS scheme. So this is what they are proposing as part of the ag policy? BPS being reduced and that cash diverted into this AECS scheme which isn't an AECS scheme?

Obviously if you are already in an AECS scheme there may be a clause that you can't claim the same thing twice. This has been the case in the past. They would need to state whether or not this will be the case going forward. My guess is they don't know yet. That whole list of stuff looks like the most complicated, difficult to administrate load of rubbish they've spewd out yet. How are they going to quantify all these perceived environmental benefits from signing up to any of this. Be as well just paying the cash and be done with it, environmental result will be the same just there won't be so many leaches taking their cut along the way.

 

[Grass And Grain]

At least they have peas/beans as an option, which we haven't in England. Not sure how many pulses get grown in Scotland though?

Also, a standard to encourage feeding of food quality forage. In England we don't have this, but are encouraged to have more extensive grass systems which probably means poorer quality feed (which, by the way, has greater methane production). Not that I really buy the whole methane thing. Cows don't produce any more C than they eat.

 

[melted welly]

Did anyone else wade thru the 50 odd pages of consultation on the future of Ag policy?

They asked whether you agree they should design an entirely new bespoke system more closely aligned with Europe.

imagine the shitshow they could make of that.

 

[DrDunc]

 

[PSQ]

More a case of "keep calm and carry on".

I've never paid much attention to ScotGovs hare brained schemes. It's best to just keep the head down when all around are getting tied in knots trying to interpret scheme rules that are so needlessly complicated that you need to employ a land agent just to make sense of the bulls**t.

 

[DrDunc]

More a case of "keep calm and carry on".

I've never paid much attention to ScotGovs hare brained schemes. It's best to just keep the head down when all around are getting tied in knots trying to interpret scheme rules that are so needlessly complicated that you need to employ a land agent just to make sense of the bulls**t.

Who do you think helps make up the rules?

ScotGov mandarins have no actual comprehension of what they are governing, be it agriculture, education, health (do we still have any manufacturing left?) etc etc etc.

"Advice" is sought from "consultants" and agents, and they have more than a little vested interest in keeping things complicated!

The latest trend is performance targets that are measurable to prove effectiveness; 27 cows reduced, 59 tonnes of carbon not released, 12 fairy farms covering their slurry pits.....

..... Bit trickier to quantify the directly attributable increase in lapwing nests, so no guesses where the money isn't going to be spent.....

 

[Bossfarmer]

there seems to be payment for having temp grass in an arable rotation, and other livestock related payments why dont the english have that? none of it says how much £/acre well get though and how much £/acre of bps they are keeping?

 

[Oldmacdonald]

It's all pie in the sky until we know what the base rate is.

 

[hoyboy]

I see they are spouting all this trying to make out they're doing us all a favour by letting us know what's happening. Look at this

Agricultural Reform Route Map

More information on the changes recipients of current farm payments will be expected to make from 2025 and when more information will be available.

www.ruralpayments.org

They let us know the budget for 2025 in October to December 2024! Oh that's just f**king ideal isn't it. Right easy to plan what you're doing when you don't know how much you're going to get payed for it. Might as well pile on the sheep, they might die, the lambs might be worth f**k all next year... At least the uncertainty is certain

 

[Lothian]

We had a talk from SGRPID recently and it is all early days but broadly speaking I understood it that we would get about half the current subsidy (so maybe £40/ac) for following existing BPS rules plus a carbon audit and some other basic crap and the other half would be for people that are "highly effective at reducing greenhouse gas emissions", whatever that means. So I think that means doing a bit more cover crops, rotational grazing etc. Doesn't sound as disastrous as the English scheme to be fair. The tier above that looks like a barstewardised AECS scheme.

 

[DrDunc]

We had a talk from SGRPID recently and it is all early days but broadly speaking I understood it that we would get about half the current subsidy (so maybe £40/ac) for following existing BPS rules plus a carbon audit and some other basic crap and the other half would be for people that are "highly effective at reducing greenhouse gas emissions", whatever that means. So I think that means doing a bit more cover crops, rotational grazing etc. Doesn't sound as disastrous as the English scheme to be fair. The tier above that looks like a barstewardised AECS scheme. View attachment 1093940

I'll bet they're salivating at the prospect of all these new inspections

 

[Dave6170]

We have never done a carbon audit. I assume they’re not worth the paper they are written on?

 

[DrDunc]

We have never done a carbon audit. I assume they’re not worth the paper they are written on?

No no, not at all

Mine came out tremendous

Near low enough carbon output to be the top group performer

Obviously that means I get more subsidy.....

 

[Bob the beef]

No no, not at all

Mine came out tremendous

Near low enough carbon output to be the top group performer

Obviously that means I get more subsidy.....

Mine too.
Low input all grass beef and sheep. Rotational grazing, forage crop wintering, minimal feed use




Show me the money

 

[jock t]

It would have been far better if they announced the Payment rates for each tier or measure at the same time but as mentioned above it looks better than what England have been lumped with. Unfortunately it looks like it won’t be worth the risk of entering any AECS contract as they won’t double fund and in previous years when new systems have been introduced, the first year has been taken as ‘base year’ for your max payment rate so we will need to maximise the new scheme in year 1.

Has anyone heard if Scotland will announce a Capital Grant Scheme this year?

 

[Chae1]

Better to make your first carbon audit quite bad.

They like to see you improving. Following there advice obviously.