Scottish new 45% tax rate and ..........

[ollie989898]

So the NHS left with the least experienced consultants?

Till they gain more experience. Then they're gone too.

A number of consultants will still do NHS work because they need to maintain their skills and knowledge. Things like plastics and max-fax where they are involved in dealing with traumatic injuries, burns, post-cancer reconstructive treatments and the like. Their private work will be probably be simpler procedures.

 

[JMcA]

Most genuine wealthy people I've spoken to don't mind paying a little bit extra tax. I can't see this tax having any impact on farmers

 

[Stewie]

So back in 2003, 20 years ago. I earned £1708 in a month (20,500) and paid £292 tax and 156.63 National inusrance. Combined that was 449.49, today thats about 34k asdjusted for inflationed up so approx 39k euro

So tax only that is 17%

Combined its 26%

So those numbers in the graph seem very low taking into account fiscal drag and slightly increase threshold. If i do the same for todays pay packet they are no where near that graph. Even my wife who works part time for an authority is on the same level of tax % as Italy, Spain in those graphs without the NI contributions.

Well all I can say is that those value are accurate for Italy and reasonable for Germany from friends' experience. For the UK you are obviously more knowledgeable than me.

Out of curiosity I put your 39k euro (33800 pound) into hrmc simulator and get this for someone in England:

which would put the tax rate at 12.5% and the combined rate at 20%, which is lower than your calculation and so not far off from the graph

edit:
I managed to find the original article which includes the tax bands for the different countries:

 

[Netherfield]

Not immediately as it would take time to build enough private hospitals so consultants would have to do all their work for the NHS giving time for more consultants to be trained up, it's not a perfect solution but as we have it is the worst of all worlds.

It must be grand living in Utopia, where there are endless doctors queuing up to be consultants, where the NHS can spend the endless budget to train them all.

Fact is there are not enough GPs in the country and it's only going to get worse not better.

Three of my daughters friends set out to be doctors, only one survived to be qualified, it's not about money, it's workload.

 

[toquark]

The NHS question is not difficult to answer, just take a look at virtually every other developed nation outside the US. A public private mix is the way forward.

trouble is trying to suggest that is politically impossible currently, however the public mood is changing now the NHS is failing on all fronts despite costing more than ever.

 

[Will Blackburn]

The NHS question is not difficult to answer, just take a look at virtually every other developed nation outside the US. A public private mix is the way forward.

trouble is trying to suggest that is politically impossible currently, however the public mood is changing now the NHS is failing on all fronts despite costing more than ever.

Labour will change it before the tories, electoral kryptonite for them.

 

[toquark]

Labour will change it before the tories, electoral kryptonite for them.

They may be the only ones who can in fairness, though I doubt Starmer will be the man to do it. He doesn’t seem to be driven by any clear philosophy beyond some vague entitlement to high office.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Fact is there are not enough GPs in the country and it's only going to get worse not better.

Is it the number of GP's, or is it that far too many of them only work part time?

 

[PSQ]

I was going to say. Looking down the hill, little Rishi is hardly the shining light of fiscal prudence. And Truss was sacked for not doing what the Scottish government is proposing to do.

It's easy to slip into the SNP's 'deflect everything against English metrics' mode, to try to justify ScotGovs the Scottish Executives abject failure. But if they want Scotland to be successfully independent then they should aiming for Swiss metrics, not f**king about playing 'whataboutery' parlour games with their equally abysmal English counterparts.

It's almost time to pull the chain, and flush the lying scumbags from both 'parliaments' down the pan.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I've just been on holiday for a few days to west Wales, and my dog was ill while I was there. My friend rang her vets in Haverfordwest, my dog was booked in with them, and they requested his records from my vets in Swindon, who sent them over via email within the hour. When the vet in Haverfordwest examined my dog he had total access to all his previous meds and illnesses, and was able to amend his records to include his notes and prescription, which were then sent back to Swindon to update them as to what had occurred.

If we can do it for dogs we can do it for people. It might mean doctors and their surgery staff might have to do some work for once, instead of acting like little tinpot dictators, but that would be no bad thing. Its surprising how much knowing that if you p*ss the customer off you don't get their business again makes people a lot more customer oriented. Medicine is a service industry and its high time they were reminded of that fact.

Pets don't have the same complex rules around patient data confidentiality....

 

[TelesnaAg]

I disagree. It’s pandering to the right on things like immigration that make a mess. The reality is we need immigration, yes it could be managed better but we are short of a workforce. The 180s are often due to the reality of what they promise not being practical or deliverable. I think the same with Corbyn, he pandered to the left and look what that did. We just need some decent politicians with a long term view on things.

Keep bringing in those Somalia's and MEs mate, illegal...you will have great workers for rural and city.

I also have some beach front land in Arizona going cheap if you interested.

Ant...

 

[crashbox]

Well all I can say is that those value are accurate for Italy and reasonable for Germany from friends' experience. For the UK you are obviously more knowledgeable than me.

Out of curiosity I put your 39k euro (33800 pound) into hrmc simulator and get this for someone in England:
View attachment 1154691
which would put the tax rate at 12.5% and the combined rate at 20%, which is lower than your calculation and so not far off from the graph

edit:
I managed to find the original article which includes the tax bands for the different countries:
View attachment 1154693

Thanks @Stewie great to see the facts

 

[toquark]

Is it the number of GP's, or is it that far too many of them only work part time?

Well that’s what happens when you have a massive gender imbalance. 90% of veterinary graduates are now women who on the whole only work full time for a few years until they have a family and then as a rule have little ambition to own or run their practices. Then complain that all the partners are men.

Drives my (part time vet) wife mad.

 

[Iben]

UK spends less than other developed countries. In a country that cannot help but wrap itself in knots with regulation, this is an obvious problem.

The UK needs to be spending around 15% of GDP on health I'd say to make it comparable to the spend in Germany, France, Denmark, Norway, Japan, etc. I don't mind how this money is raised or provided- it makes no difference to me, but you'll have to accept it will have to be spent or we're wasting our time here.

If the whole service was privatised, you can expect some organisations/services to fold and be absorbed into others. This could disadvantage some voters more than others.

The reason private providers appear to do so well is because they are pricing the job to what they consider a reasonable level plus the profit that makes the endeavour worthwhile. The Department of health simply refuses to pay this kind of money- a levelised cost for every treatment or procedure is available online with some googling. Any of us could get a full body CT scan done this evening- if the funding was there to pay someone to do it but the department of health will not pay this sum because they want to pay NHS money. In France, you get seen very rapidly by all kinds of providers with little wait involved- this is because they want as many people through the doors as fast as possible because each patient attracts a fee that is paid by their insurance. Throw a profit motive into the job and suddenly the nature of the whole playing field changes.

Out of interest, are you suggesting that uk needs to increase nhs spending by 50% in order to get it working correctly? What would the taxpayer get for that money.

 

[Goweresque]

Out of interest, are you suggesting that uk needs to increase nhs spending by 50% in order to get it working correctly? What would the taxpayer get for that money.

SFA, if the experience of going from 5.5% of GDP in 2000 to 9.3% of GDP in 2022 is anything to go by........its not the money thats the NHS's problem, its the fact it operates like the economy of the USSR from 1918 to 1990. You could pour 20% of GDP into the NHS and it would still be crap because all that happens is the producers (ie the people who work in it) just take the vast majority of the money for themselves.

The NHS actually has negative productivity. The more money thats been put in, the less it does. The NHS has managed to do less now, with significantly more money than it did pre-covid.

Look at these figures:

From: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/there-really-nhs-productivity-crisis

Staffing levels up by around 20% since 2019, yet output has hardly moved. As I said - the staff take all the cash and do SFA for it. The whole thing needs razing to the ground, everyone sacking and being forced to reapply for their job under an entirely decentralised and privatised system.

 

[toquark]

I sort of see the NHS as something akin to British Leyland circa the mid 70s. Deep down everyone knows it’s a lost cause but nobody is prepared to admit it or do anything about it. Currently, it’s just too painful a scab to pull.

 

[glasshouse]

SFA, if the experience of going from 5.5% of GDP in 2000 to 9.3% of GDP in 2022 is anything to go by........its not the money thats the NHS's problem, its the fact it operates like the economy of the USSR from 1918 to 1990. You could pour 20% of GDP into the NHS and it would still be crap because all that happens is the producers (ie the people who work in it) just take the vast majority of the money for themselves.

The NHS actually has negative productivity. The more money thats been put in, the less it does. The NHS has managed to do less now, with significantly more money than it did pre-covid.

Look at these figures:

View attachment 1154772

From: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/there-really-nhs-productivity-crisis

Staffing levels up by around 20% since 2019, yet output has hardly moved. As I said - the staff take all the cash and do SFA for it. The whole thing needs razing to the ground, everyone sacking and being forced to reapply for their job under an entirely decentralised and privatised system.

Jeez
U have finally flipped

 

[PSQ]

I sort of see the NHS as something akin to British Leyland circa the mid 70s. Deep down everyone knows it’s a lost cause but nobody is prepared to admit it or do anything about it. Currently, it’s just too painful a scab to pull.

So that leaves the Germans owning 'Mini', and an Indian company with JLR.

If the latter were doing private heart surgery, expect it to be vastly overpriced for what it is, and not to last much beyond the warranty period...

 

[ollie989898]

Out of interest, are you suggesting that uk needs to increase nhs spending by 50% in order to get it working correctly? What would the taxpayer get for that money.

It's comparable to the spend in other European countries.

The scope and advancement of healthcare advances annually. If you want to keep pace with other European countries you'll need to spend more.

 

[ollie989898]

SFA, if the experience of going from 5.5% of GDP in 2000 to 9.3% of GDP in 2022 is anything to go by........its not the money thats the NHS's problem, its the fact it operates like the economy of the USSR from 1918 to 1990. You could pour 20% of GDP into the NHS and it would still be crap because all that happens is the producers (ie the people who work in it) just take the vast majority of the money for themselves.

The NHS actually has negative productivity. The more money thats been put in, the less it does. The NHS has managed to do less now, with significantly more money than it did pre-covid.

Look at these figures:

View attachment 1154772

From: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/there-really-nhs-productivity-crisis

Staffing levels up by around 20% since 2019, yet output has hardly moved. As I said - the staff take all the cash and do SFA for it. The whole thing needs razing to the ground, everyone sacking and being forced to reapply for their job under an entirely decentralised and privatised system.

You need to examine the spending by other countries.

This is not rocket science. If you want French and German or Japanese level healthcare, you need to spend that sort of money.

Go on the Kings Fund website and tell me how many CT and MRI scanners the UK has compared to these countries.

Then doctors and nurses per 100,000 people.

This isn't magic.