Second wheat questions

[SpottedFlycatcher]

I’ve got some second wheat questions:

1. Are there any varieties that are best suited to being a second wheat?

2. Is Latitude needed when a second wheat is drilled as late as January?

3. what kind of seed rates should be used for second wheat drilled in Dec/Jan? I would normally be at around 190 kgs in early October for a first wheat.

4. Is chopped wheat straw from the previous wheat crop a help or a hindrance?

Thanks.

What did you go for in the end?

Does anyone use KWS Extase as a second wheat? I'd heard it wasn't recommended, but have just been recommended it.....

We need a medium/tall straw length for baling, although that's low priority.

Heard good things about Mayflower at an AHDB demo farm a few weeks back, but doesn't seem widely used?

 

[ollie989898]

Drill when soil is cooler so later drilling. I think good fertility really helps.

 

[Farma Parma]

What did you go for in the end?

Does anyone use KWS Extase as a second wheat? I'd heard it wasn't recommended, but have just been recommended it.....

We need a medium/tall straw length for baling, although that's low priority.

Heard good things about Mayflower at an AHDB demo farm a few weeks back, but doesn't seem widely used?

got extase following extase so i'll find out !

 

[warksfarmer]

I’ve got some second wheat questions:

1. Are there any varieties that are best suited to being a second wheat?

2. Is Latitude needed when a second wheat is drilled as late as January?

3. what kind of seed rates should be used for second wheat drilled in Dec/Jan? I would normally be at around 190 kgs in early October for a first wheat.

4. Is chopped wheat straw from the previous wheat crop a help or a hindrance?

Thanks.

Just growing wheat here now with the odd potatoes on lighter soils. We get on well with crusoe basically as a continuous wheat. However we don’t start drilling till the end of October and seed rate is 250kg mostly uncleaned straight off the heap. All is undressed though. Drilled some in Feb this year at 300kg and up until last week I wasn’t sure about it but now it looks ‘ok’ - not brilliant by any means.
Late drilling means we’ve some rough looking field corners but our grass weed control is good this year. We seem to be able to achieve farm average yield of 3.5t and get group 1 milling quality.
To break it up a bit we can swap between winter and spring wheat and put a cover crop inbetween - something cheap like mustard. After 10 yrs of cover crops I’m not convinced they are worth it though but they look good!

Due to the lack of new milling wheat varieties I think we should probably be mixing 2-3 group 1’s together as an extra disease protection so I’m looking at that now. Crusoe, Zyatt & Illustrious mix maybe.

 

[Alfred the average]

What is the main issue with 2nd wheats for those that don’t get on with it .?
We rotate 300 acres of wheat after 3 year’s temporary grass used for haylage. Last year we kept 100 acres in as a 2nd wheat and weighed after drying at 10.8T Ha . The other 200 acres that were 1st averaged a fraction less . This time around and yes far to early to make a judgement on yield but my agronomist said the 2nd wheat again looks promising. We are heavy clay soil conventional tillage system but after a minimum of 3 years grass .
Just interested to know.

 

[teslacoils]

My second wheat after grass usually outperform first wheat. But only as I leave all the turf on top year 1. The main issue is inconsistency. No dressings used here. Aim to be drilled up mid October.

Haa been gleam for ages and before that Lili.

 

[Alfred the average]

My second wheat after grass usually outperform first wheat. But only as I leave all the turf on top year 1. The main issue is inconsistency. No dressings used here. Aim to be drilled up mid October.

Haa been gleam for ages and before that Lili.

Mine was Gleam . Just out of interest you said you leave the turf on the top !
We disc 3x after ryegrass and then LD subsoil and combi . This is ok but still get small sods on top which can hinder consolidation. After Timothy we have to plough as the Timothy sods are big and slow to break down.
How do you cope ?

 

[teslacoils]

Twice over with the solo. Roll.

Typically the ground after grass in a normal summer is so hard the plough just bounces out. Its one of those jobs that in an ideal world I would plough for but in reality that would mean waiting until December. Seedbed is often quite fluffy and always looks comeplete ass early on as the dead grass breaks down.

 

[Alfred the average]

Twice over with the solo. Roll.

Typically the ground after grass in a normal summer is so hard the plough just bounces out. Its one of those jobs that in an ideal world I would plough for but in reality that would mean waiting until December. Seedbed is often quite fluffy and always looks comeplete ass early on as the dead grass breaks down.

Agree re ploughing is often too hard ! In an ideal world yes . Might even consider LD subsoiler at 90 degrees to direction of plough if it means I can bury the Timothy turf .

 

[teslacoils]

You couldnt get anything in for the last two years. Last year even a heavy set of discs just rode out. In the end I just sat still until it rained, then solo, power harrow, drill, roll.

Mine is all late ryegrass and is cut maybe three times. Im looking to change for a mix that roots deeper ideally. Ryegrass doesnt really get down into the soil as much as Im wanting.

 

[Flat 10]

What is the main issue with 2nd wheats for those that don’t get on with it .?
We rotate 300 acres of wheat after 3 year’s temporary grass used for haylage. Last year we kept 100 acres in as a 2nd wheat and weighed after drying at 10.8T Ha . The other 200 acres that were 1st averaged a fraction less . This time around and yes far to early to make a judgement on yield but my agronomist said the 2nd wheat again looks promising. We are heavy clay soil conventional tillage system but after a minimum of 3 years grass .
Just interested to know.

Take all, less fertile and lighter land tends to suffer more. Oh and black grass. I dream of 11t/ha from my first wheat. I think you need to change your name to not average.

 

[Alfred the average]

Take all, less fertile and lighter land tends to suffer more. Oh and black grass. I dream of 11t/ha from my first wheat. I think you need to change your name to not average.

Some of the farm has been continuously re seeded into short term leys for over 20 years so so quite fortunate that there is zero black grass and I guess for our heavy clay OM is good .

 

[ollie989898]

Some of the farm has been continuously re seeded into short term leys for over 20 years so so quite fortunate that there is zero black grass and I guess for our heavy clay OM is good .

In your circumstances a second wheat should go ok albeit with a small yield lag over a first wheat.

I do think good soil structure and fertility help with take all.

 

[Alfred the average]

You couldnt get anything in for the last two years. Last year even a heavy set of discs just rode out. In the end I just sat still until it rained, then solo, power harrow, drill, roll.

Mine is all late ryegrass and is cut maybe three times. Im looking to change for a mix that roots deeper ideally. Ryegrass doesnt really get down into the soil as much as Im wanting.

You could try straight Cocksfoot. It is good in drought, huge root system and palatable as long as you don’t get it over mature.
When cut for hay dries much quicker than ryegrass on a par with Timothy.

 

[teslacoils]

2nd wheat after grass.
Grass.

No hay made here. I'd have nightmares about the seed return.

 

[Alfred the average]

2nd wheat after grass.
Grass.

No hay made here. I'd have nightmares about the seed return.

What do you do with your grass ?
Asking for a friend

 

[teslacoils]

What do you do with your grass ?
Asking for a friend

Silage. Previously for local dairy. Now for digester.

I should make haylage but simply not interested in the investment.

Main aim is fertility and organic matter, and let's me grow three or four big cereals after. Grass is my only break crop.

 

[seedstosuccess]

I’ve got some second wheat questions:

1. Are there any varieties that are best suited to being a second wheat?

2. Is Latitude needed when a second wheat is drilled as late as January?

3. what kind of seed rates should be used for second wheat drilled in Dec/Jan? I would normally be at around 190 kgs in early October for a first wheat.

4. Is chopped wheat straw from the previous wheat crop a help or a hindrance?

Thanks.

1. Yes, there are certain wheat varieties that are better suited to being planted as a second wheat. These varieties should have a good disease resistance profile, strong straw, and early maturity to allow for a shorter growing season. Consult with your local agricultural extension office or seed supplier to identify the best varieties for your specific location and conditions.

2. Latitude can still be important even if planting a second wheat in January, as it can affect the available sunlight, temperature, and rainfall that the crop receives. However, the importance of latitude may be somewhat reduced compared to earlier planting dates.

3. When planting a second wheat in December or January, it is recommended to increase the seed rate to compensate for the reduced time available for the crop to develop. A seed rate of around 250-300 kg/ha may be appropriate, although this will depend on local conditions and the specific variety being planted.

4. Chopped wheat straw from the previous crop can be both a help and a hindrance. On the one hand, it can help to improve soil structure, increase soil organic matter, and provide some residual nutrients. On the other hand, if the straw is not chopped finely enough, it can interfere with seed-to-soil contact and seedling emergence. Additionally, if the previous crop had disease issues, the straw may contain pathogens that could infect the new crop. It is important to balance the potential benefits and risks when deciding whether to incorporate chopped straw into a second wheat planting.

Seeds To Success