ill throw my penny worth in for what its worth, when i started keeping cattle back in the late 1970s things were so much simpler and more profitable, when an animal died the knacker man gave you someting for it, remember that? also vet visits seemed alot more reasonable now you might as well give the cow to the vet, the costs have not kept up with the price animals are worth?
Sentiment and livestock welfare
- Thread starter FarmyStu
- Start date
Daniel Larn
Member
I will chip in too, as welfare is why we are doing what we are doing I just can't resist.
As others have already pointed out, case 1 doesn't make commercial sense, so I would take the view that it is 'worse' than the neglect in case 2.
In case 2 there may be other factors at play, which I can understand to a point, but it is objectively no different to case 1.
Quite simply it boils down to this:
If neither animal was recieving treatment for pain, and it was being left to suffer on, then it's without doubt neglect.
As others have already pointed out, case 1 doesn't make commercial sense, so I would take the view that it is 'worse' than the neglect in case 2.
In case 2 there may be other factors at play, which I can understand to a point, but it is objectively no different to case 1.
Quite simply it boils down to this:
If neither animal was recieving treatment for pain, and it was being left to suffer on, then it's without doubt neglect.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Not nearly enough context supplied to make an informed decision - just as you said
depends on which way they are going, as much as where they are at in a snapshot of timeRe boluses, nothing against them as a quick fix, same as some vit C is sometimes not sufficient in our diet, and then a pill can be handy - however if it was my kids I would rather they had ad-lib fruit over ad-lib dietary supplements, and my stock are basically treated to the same; it isn't just happenstance but management that provides the nutrition they want
unlike people, our stock can't ask for what they want, but the signs are there all the same if things are lacking then the simple solution is to provide access to the correct food, maybe cheaper in the long run to have some weeds
primmiemoo
Member
- Location
- Devon
True, bu-u-ut, there is also the personality of the case 1 finisher. Case 2 keeper comes across to the OPer as caring. How do we not know that the OP'er was treated defensively/dismissively by the finisher?
I know nothing about the poster in RL or why he goes on farm, so can't rule out any negative vibes in that interaction. Bu-u-ut ... I do know that some cattle finishers are a smidge'n'abit macho, and would rather themselves keel over with some ailment that has a good prognosis for recovery if caught early enough than express sentiment towards a bullock despite being concerned for its welfare and giving it appropriate fodder, water, and treatment. [Bother, stumped for an emoji again
].
- Location
- Ceredigion
You are mixing size with welfare .size as nothing to do with it .plenty of people been done for cruelty for keeping one dog
Daniel Larn
Member
True, bu-u-ut, there is also the personality of the case 1 finisher. Case 2 keeper comes across to the OPer as caring. How do we not know that the OP'er was treated defensively/dismissively by the finisher?
I know nothing about the poster in RL or why he goes on farm, so can't rule out any negative vibes in that interaction. Bu-u-ut ... I do know that some cattle finishers are a smidge'n'abit macho, and would rather themselves keel over with some ailment that has a good prognosis for recovery if caught early enough than express sentiment towards a bullock despite being concerned for its welfare and giving it appropriate fodder, water, and treatment. [Bother, stumped for an emoji again
Yes, I know what you mean. I did say that it all boils down to the same thing in the end, 'is the animal getting the most appropriate treatment for the suffering it is currently afflicted with?'.
Your case 1 bullock may be getting meds to help it recover, and all is well. Case 2 could be getting the same as case 1, but perhaps the most appropriate treatment for an aged bull is in fact euthanasia.
OP didn't give us enough detail to know for sure either way, for either case.
blacksheepcontracting
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion, Wales
It’s only a matter of time until we’re ‘found out’ and that high labour units to livestock units doesn’t equal higher welfare either. British farming seems to need a major psychological overhaul that will hopefully become a reality in the not too distant future
Daniel Larn
Member
PREACH! fingers crossed we see a change soon!
- Location
- West Wales
- Location
- Fife
We can’t get rid of scab or TB in this country! Let alone footrot
We've got rid of scab once, and came very close with TB. It just takes a bit of political will or industry co operation.
- Location
- West Wales
I know someone who was on the badger culls and TB eradication scheme in the late 80’s, after years of doing it he said they were down to the last few months and it would have gone!
government policy is to keep TB
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It is absurd, I always end up saying the same thing, it is a public safety issue and vector control isn't just a myth, it works
Nice soundbite from Mr Gove about integrated livestock in systems for soil health, commendable, but the reality maybe somewhat different if you aren't allowed to exterminate vermin