Separator long term running costs

[early riser]

Evening all,

Looking tentatively into the option of installing a rotary-screen separator to deal with sand-laden slurry.

150 cows, housed 5 months max.

Having been successful in Round 1 of the slurry infrastructure grant, I have since been invited to modify my application to include items from Round 2, which now include rotary screen separators.

On the face of it, the grant looks attractive, giving 50% funding on everything from the reception pits, pumps etc right down to the concrete bunker to store seperated solids in. Having seperated liquid will also enable us to easily store slurry in a covered store and apply nutrients via low-emission spreading techniques, both of which are issues that don't seem to be going away unfortunately.

However, as someone who has always believed in keeping things as simple as possible, talking about multiple pumps, seperators etc scares the life out of me if i'm honest as they're all things to go wrong. Having had a bad run of machinery repairs lately, im quite conscious of how cash can quickly leak out of the system with extra complications.

Im therefore keen to hear from some established users of separators to try and get a handle of potential annual running costs. Repairs, maintenance, electric use etc

@Boysground @lazy farmer @frederick

I should also make it clear that having a covered slurry store is a condition of approval from my Local Planning Authority to get it through the SCAIL analysis, therefore sacking off the grant scheme will not negate the need for a covered store unfortunately, before folks suggest it.

Thanks

 

[rusty]

I put an NC screen separator in in 2005 in conjunction with a 250 cow cubicle shed bedded on sand. We ditched the sand after 14 months. The separator coped ok with the sand but the Landia pump used to feed it had high wear and the parts were very dear. We had a two stage settling tank for the liquid before the liquid went through a 6” underground pipe across the yard to the lagoon. This used to silt up too often due to the settling tanks not trapping enough sand. We have recently changed to a screw press separator and rally like the separated liquid in our umbilical and trailing shoe system.
There are lots of different types of sand that act differently. I think the biggest issue is being able to feed a separator . I know some on here have got on ok with Houle piston pumps.

 

[lazy farmer]

Evening all,

Looking tentatively into the option of installing a rotary-screen separator to deal with sand-laden slurry.

150 cows, housed 5 months max.

Having been successful in Round 1 of the slurry infrastructure grant, I have since been invited to modify my application to include items from Round 2, which now include rotary screen separators.

On the face of it, the grant looks attractive, giving 50% funding on everything from the reception pits, pumps etc right down to the concrete bunker to store seperated solids in. Having seperated liquid will also enable us to easily store slurry in a covered store and apply nutrients via low-emission spreading techniques, both of which are issues that don't seem to be going away unfortunately.

However, as someone who has always believed in keeping things as simple as possible, talking about multiple pumps, seperators etc scares the life out of me if i'm honest as they're all things to go wrong. Having had a bad run of machinery repairs lately, im quite conscious of how cash can quickly leak out of the system with extra complications.

Im therefore keen to hear from some established users of separators to try and get a handle of potential annual running costs. Repairs, maintenance, electric use etc

@Boysground @lazy farmer @frederick

I should also make it clear that having a covered slurry store is a condition of approval from my Local Planning Authority to get it through the SCAIL analysis, therefore sacking off the grant scheme will not negate the need for a covered store unfortunately, before folks suggest it.

Thanks

Let’s be blunt.
if your not good with Machinary(like me)
It willl cost you anywhere between 1/2 and 1p a litre.(including depreciation) If you’re good with Machinary(my son) then1/10 to 1/2 is possible.
now he is in charge we have massively reduced the hours it runs and the hassle it can produce. After 7 yrs of incompetent usage from me we are on separator number 2 and pump number 2. but now it runs on 90% free electric and gets TLC it really shouldn’t be the burden it has been in the past. One big tip from me is to either have an electric mixer to sit iin your reception bit or have a tractor based one that can stir the pit every third day or so. This massively reduces the work the pump has to do
And speeds up separation to the point that we only turn in on for a few hours every other day now.
having said all that @frederick is your man he has the same situation as yourself.
I mustn’t forget to say it. will take up time whether at the most inconvenient moments.

 

[ollie989898]

I put an NC screen separator in in 2005 in conjunction with a 250 cow cubicle shed bedded on sand. We ditched the sand after 14 months. The separator coped ok with the sand but the Landia pump used to feed it had high wear and the parts were very dear. We had a two stage settling tank for the liquid before the liquid went through a 6” underground pipe across the yard to the lagoon. This used to silt up too often due to the settling tanks not trapping enough sand. We have recently changed to a screw press separator and rally like the separated liquid in our umbilical and trailing shoe system.
There are lots of different types of sand that act differently. I think the biggest issue is being able to feed a separator . I know some on here have got on ok with Houle piston pumps.

What do you bed with instead of sand and what drawbacks did you find with it compared to sand?

 

[Boysground]

Evening all,

Looking tentatively into the option of installing a rotary-screen separator to deal with sand-laden slurry.

150 cows, housed 5 months max.

Having been successful in Round 1 of the slurry infrastructure grant, I have since been invited to modify my application to include items from Round 2, which now include rotary screen separators.

On the face of it, the grant looks attractive, giving 50% funding on everything from the reception pits, pumps etc right down to the concrete bunker to store seperated solids in. Having seperated liquid will also enable us to easily store slurry in a covered store and apply nutrients via low-emission spreading techniques, both of which are issues that don't seem to be going away unfortunately.

However, as someone who has always believed in keeping things as simple as possible, talking about multiple pumps, seperators etc scares the life out of me if i'm honest as they're all things to go wrong. Having had a bad run of machinery repairs lately, im quite conscious of how cash can quickly leak out of the system with extra complications.

Im therefore keen to hear from some established users of separators to try and get a handle of potential annual running costs. Repairs, maintenance, electric use etc

@Boysground @lazy farmer @frederick

I should also make it clear that having a covered slurry store is a condition of approval from my Local Planning Authority to get it through the SCAIL analysis, therefore sacking off the grant scheme will not negate the need for a covered store unfortunately, before folks suggest it.

Thanks

Keep everything as simple as possible, with sand we probably go through 2 screens a year, £1000 a time. My advice is to design your system so that if the separator is not working you are not stuffed. Pick a make where you can easily get parts, Ideally one where you can change the screen yourself easily. Electric use is what it is, my system runs off 5 1hp motors. We do have plans to put a big mixer in though to try and make the slurry more consistent.

I think SCAIL is probably the most under stood/estimated problem that livestock producers have, and alongside that phosphate issues. I suspect that this will mean that all new lagoons will have to meet SCAIL. This whole proceedure has been a massive problem for me, hopefully we are on the way to getting a decision soon.

Bg

 

[rusty]

What do you bed with instead of sand and what drawbacks did you find with it compared to sand?

Swapped to envirobed paper deep bedded like the sand. It was ok but the cow pee made it eventually go like concrete so used to get a mini digger in every 6 months to dig them out and refill with fresh. About 10 years ago we concreted the beds level and had a grant to put mattresses in. These are bedded twice a day with powder bed sawdust. No particular drawbacks to the sawdust.

 

[frederick]

Evening all,

Looking tentatively into the option of installing a rotary-screen separator to deal with sand-laden slurry.

150 cows, housed 5 months max.

Having been successful in Round 1 of the slurry infrastructure grant, I have since been invited to modify my application to include items from Round 2, which now include rotary screen separators.

On the face of it, the grant looks attractive, giving 50% funding on everything from the reception pits, pumps etc right down to the concrete bunker to store seperated solids in. Having seperated liquid will also enable us to easily store slurry in a covered store and apply nutrients via low-emission spreading techniques, both of which are issues that don't seem to be going away unfortunately.

However, as someone who has always believed in keeping things as simple as possible, talking about multiple pumps, seperators etc scares the life out of me if i'm honest as they're all things to go wrong. Having had a bad run of machinery repairs lately, im quite conscious of how cash can quickly leak out of the system with extra complications.

Im therefore keen to hear from some established users of separators to try and get a handle of potential annual running costs. Repairs, maintenance, electric use etc

@Boysground @lazy farmer @frederick

I should also make it clear that having a covered slurry store is a condition of approval from my Local Planning Authority to get it through the SCAIL analysis, therefore sacking off the grant scheme will not negate the need for a covered store unfortunately, before folks suggest it.

Thanks

Your bedding on sand and putting a roof on your store and being offered a 50% grant. You unfortunately have no alternative than to put a sperrin separator in.

I see your up north so a visit down south might be a bit far. Your dealer also probably isn't midland slurry but find out who they are and go and visit their best installation.

So you do need a plan b for the days it frozen or broken. Two winters. 3 days frozen 0 broken. We just push ours into the old lagoon.

300 cows 5 month winter just finishing second. 1 new screen and one new pump impeller. We try to keep the stones out but the odd flint is what did the screen.

The pump a landia submersible will be the much cheaper purchase and probably running cost option for 150 cows but a more expensive piston pump would reduce the running costs and possibly potential down time. Our mixer has given no trouble yet.

150 cows it will probably run for 1.5 hours drawing about 12kw though three phase will be essential.

Parlour washings and another potential source of dirty water to the reception pit is necessary. The thinner it is the better it works and actually the faster it works.

If you heap the sand up from the sand lane and store for the next winter you will drop your purchase sand costs by half.

The benefits in material to handle are huge like you suggested.

Our sand lane does remove all the sand but there is still an element of fine organic settlement. We will probably need to deal with this somehow under the cover in 10-15 years but maybe able to solve with jet stirrer. We are using a slurry bug to hopefully reduce this a bit.

However technically the ea have moved the goalposts on separated solids and they should be stored on an impermeable base and covered. Rather than treating as fym and field heaping. Not sure very many are compliant.

Don't think you are likely to build pit bunker, sand lanes and install equipment for much less than 150-200k so I would budget your costs at 100k.

I look at mine as a very good investment.

 

[sjt01]

Evening all,

Looking tentatively into the option of installing a rotary-screen separator to deal with sand-laden slurry.

150 cows, housed 5 months max.

Having been successful in Round 1 of the slurry infrastructure grant, I have since been invited to modify my application to include items from Round 2, which now include rotary screen separators.

On the face of it, the grant looks attractive, giving 50% funding on everything from the reception pits, pumps etc right down to the concrete bunker to store seperated solids in. Having seperated liquid will also enable us to easily store slurry in a covered store and apply nutrients via low-emission spreading techniques, both of which are issues that don't seem to be going away unfortunately.

However, as someone who has always believed in keeping things as simple as possible, talking about multiple pumps, seperators etc scares the life out of me if i'm honest as they're all things to go wrong. Having had a bad run of machinery repairs lately, im quite conscious of how cash can quickly leak out of the system with extra complications.

Im therefore keen to hear from some established users of separators to try and get a handle of potential annual running costs. Repairs, maintenance, electric use etc

@Boysground @lazy farmer @frederick

I should also make it clear that having a covered slurry store is a condition of approval from my Local Planning Authority to get it through the SCAIL analysis, therefore sacking off the grant scheme will not negate the need for a covered store unfortunately, before folks suggest it.

Thanks

I hope you are not on as hard water as we are. The limescale quickly blinded our screens, and with the pain of changing them on top of a tower platform in rough weather we quickly changed for a screw type. With the correct size screen we have no issues (initially with a 0.75mm we had limescale issues, but the 0.9mm is no problem)

 

[frederick]

I hope you are not on as hard water as we are. The limescale quickly blinded our screens, and with the pain of changing them on top of a tower platform in rough weather we quickly changed for a screw type. With the correct size screen we have no issues (initially with a 0.75mm we had limescale issues, but the 0.9mm is no problem)

But you wouldn't be running sand through a screw.

Where is all that hard water coming from. Lots of rain water here. Our water is very hard but it's not that large a percentage of what goes through the separator.

 

[Farmer Keith]

Slightly off topic but who decides if you have to abide by SCAIL analysis? I know of a few lagoons going in at the moment that certainly are not going to be covered.

 

[Boysground]

In my case Natural England, they were consulted by the planning authority. I have support through CSF and EA. You would think the right people in NE would know what is going on but I don’t think they do.

There was a change of policy by NE on 6th Feb. They now expect to send standard responses in most consultations with planning authorities advising that risks are low and further consultations are not required.

It’s the most cases part that is concerning, I am not confident that everyone in NE fully understands the situation. I would explain what i have been through but don’t want to go into detail before I get planning.

As I said before SCAIL and high phosphate could easily become the biggest limiting factor to dairy farming

Bg

 

[Farmer Keith]

In my case Natural England, they were consulted by the planning authority. I have support through CSF and EA. You would think the right people in NE would know what is going on but I don’t think they do.

There was a change of policy by NE on 6th Feb. They now expect to send standard responses in most consultations with planning authorities advising that risks are low and further consultations are not required.

It’s the most cases part that is concerning, I am not confident that everyone in NE fully understands the situation. I would explain what i have been through but don’t want to go into detail before I get planning.

As I said before SCAIL and high phosphate could easily become the biggest limiting factor to dairy farming

Bg

Thank you, very frustrating to be caught up in it I’d imagine.

My store is roof ready but I’ve no intention of spending a penny on it until everybody locally has a store at least, it’s very much one rule for some and a totally different one elsewhere at the moment.

 

[frederick]

Thank you, very frustrating to be caught up in it I’d imagine.

My store is roof ready but I’ve no intention of spending a penny on it until everybody locally has a store at least, it’s very much one rule for some and a totally different one elsewhere at the moment.

If I were you and you don't have much of a sediment issue I would give Linton and Robinson a ring and your catchment sensitive farming officer. Get a grant from Cs capital water grants and get the roof on. If your arla you'll even score another point as well but the rain water you will save over the next 40 years will make it quite attractive.

 

[early riser]

I hope you are not on as hard water as we are. The limescale quickly blinded our screens, and with the pain of changing them on top of a tower platform in rough weather we quickly changed for a screw type. With the correct size screen we have no issues (initially with a 0.75mm we had limescale issues, but the 0.9mm is no problem)

interesting.

I’m on limestone so our (borehole) water is about as hard as it comes

 

[early riser]

Slightly off topic but who decides if you have to abide by SCAIL analysis? I know of a few lagoons going in at the moment that certainly are not going to be covered.

In my case the national park’s own ecologists (the national park is the LPA)

 

[vantage]

Your bedding on sand and putting a roof on your store and being offered a 50% grant. You unfortunately have no alternative than to put a sperrin separator in.

I see your up north so a visit down south might be a bit far. Your dealer also probably isn't midland slurry but find out who they are and go and visit their best installation.

So you do need a plan b for the days it frozen or broken. Two winters. 3 days frozen 0 broken. We just push ours into the old lagoon.

300 cows 5 month winter just finishing second. 1 new screen and one new pump impeller. We try to keep the stones out but the odd flint is what did the screen.

The pump a landia submersible will be the much cheaper purchase and probably running cost option for 150 cows but a more expensive piston pump would reduce the running costs and possibly potential down time. Our mixer has given no trouble yet.

150 cows it will probably run for 1.5 hours drawing about 12kw though three phase will be essential.

Parlour washings and another potential source of dirty water to the reception pit is necessary. The thinner it is the better it works and actually the faster it works.

If you heap the sand up from the sand lane and store for the next winter you will drop your purchase sand costs by half.

The benefits in material to handle are huge like you suggested.

Our sand lane does remove all the sand but there is still an element of fine organic settlement. We will probably need to deal with this somehow under the cover in 10-15 years but maybe able to solve with jet stirrer. We are using a slurry bug to hopefully reduce this a bit.

However technically the ea have moved the goalposts on separated solids and they should be stored on an impermeable base and covered. Rather than treating as fym and field heaping. Not sure very many are compliant.

Don't think you are likely to build pit bunker, sand lanes and install equipment for much less than 150-200k so I would budget your costs at 100k.

I look at mine as a very good investment.

CE projects came here recently, as I found out they make a barrel screen similar to the Sperrin, Elaine said it just took some hot water in cold weather to de-ice before setting it going, also they make a piston pump which is a match for the Houle.
What type of mixer would you put in a reception tank, to homogenise the slurry to pump to the separator?
Bit worrying about the solids, that’s going to jack costs up.
Do you think I can reuse the sand under the separated liquid, once it’s pumped off? It’s the original concrete pit that it’s going into.

 

[frederick]

CE projects came here recently, as I found out they make a barrel screen similar to the Sperrin, Elaine said it just took some hot water in cold weather to de-ice before setting it going, also they make a piston pump which is a match for the Houle.
What type of mixer would you put in a reception tank, to homogenise the slurry to pump to the separator?
Bit worrying about the solids, that’s going to jack costs up.
Do you think I can reuse the sand under the separated liquid, once it’s pumped off? It’s the original concrete pit that it’s going into.

We have a 5kw landia mixer in a 45 cubic metre pit but sand slurries running all the time your separating is a must..
Is there any way it could land on a bit of concrete 3m by 10m. Before going into the lagoon 85% of the sand will come out on that.
There might be a bit more solids in the sand if it comes out the lagoon but you might need to wait for the following year to use it so if you took it out lagoon June 24 wouldn't want to reuse until SEP 25.

Ce is extremely similar to the sperrin.

I think the solids issue maybe needs to be ignored. The grant has ignored it or it would have 50% on a suitable roofed store for the solids as well.

 

[vantage]

We have a 5kw landia mixer in a 45 cubic metre pit but sand slurries running all the time your separating is a must..
Is there any way it could land on a bit of concrete 3m by 10m. Before going into the lagoon 85% of the sand will come out on that.
There might be a bit more solids in the sand if it comes out the lagoon but you might need to wait for the following year to use it so if you took it out lagoon June 24 wouldn't want to reuse until SEP 25.

Ce is extremely similar to the sperrin.

I think the solids issue maybe needs to be ignored. The grant has ignored it or it would have 50% on a suitable roofed store for the solids as well.

I had thought of a concrete tank in the corner of the concrete store we currently use. Channel would drop the slurry and parlour wash water into it, mixed and pumped upto the separator, solids into a trailer, liquid and sand fall back into the original concrete store, sand settles out, then pump the liquid off to the new lagoon.
I think I’d better draw a picture!

 

[vantage]

@frederick

Don’t know why it’s come out ups down!

 

[frederick]

I had thought of a concrete tank in the corner of the concrete store we currently use. Channel would drop the slurry and parlour wash water into it, mixed and pumped upto the separator, solids into a trailer, liquid and sand fall back into the original concrete store, sand settles out, then pump the liquid off to the new lagoon.
I think I’d better draw a picture!

That all makes sense but some concrete before the lagoon would mean you could use sand a year earlier and easier to handle. Don't know how big first lagoon is but there will be quite a lot of sand.