September lambing dorsets

[CopperBeech]

Some of you may remember that we tupped a load of dorsets to lamb in september, to charmoise tups as a bit of an experiment.

Thought id give a bit of an update, for those who were interested.

Ewes lambed end of September into October, they were hoggs and didn't catch for early september. Ewes were lambed outside on permanent pasture with twice daily checks and didn't very well both having and rearing their lambs.

They were batched off onto cover crops at a week old, and rotated these, behind electric.

Weaned them in January, lambs weighed from mid thirties, to mid forties, with the vast majority being over forty kg.

Last lambs go this week, to average over £100. All ewe lambs retained, and all have made tupping weight.

No hard feed for ewes or lambs, no fly spray, most with no wormer.

Have lots of photos on my phone but can't get them to the computer.

[Mod edit. Photos now uploaded by JP1]

Some ewe lambs to tup in April. September born

Last fat lambs to go off

Ewes

Ewes and lambs in the snow

Cover crop photos to follow

 

[MRT]

Cool

 

[GreenerGrass]

Remember you posting an early photo of your black ops. That's nuts, different from normal. Kind winter must have helped, did you hay them in the snow?
Well done!

 

[CopperBeech]

We didn't really hay them no, we were lambing another load in the snow in january to, that was interesting

 

[taff]

What were your scanning lambing and weaning % like our dorsets don't scan much more than 160% but we lose very few compared to the higher lambing % spring flock also lambing at that % is usally a real pleasure. Nice to hear you got on ok outside I find the dorset do get a bit fat and lazy inside but we don't have the set up for outside lambing unfortunately

 

[Ukjay]

Have lots of photos on my phone but can't get them to the computer.

If it is a smart phone and you can post messages via your phone, could you not use the upload function from your phone?

 

[andybk]

thats exactly what we used to do when we had abundance of dairy keep in the 70s 80s , except we used charollais as terminals (better growth) and we are @750' its a good system without all the annoying normal things like feet and flies ,worked well for timing and end of keep , i expect any retained ewe lambs will lamb before christmas as well ,( you will prob be lambing mid nov with those ) be ready same time with less over fat , tup in , may, sell any that dont take .
October is best time to lamb as you found out , september is to early and lambs will be to big for easter trade , Its a great system for those that have winter grass .

 

[Martyn]

We operate this system and our contract takes lambs from Jan to May paying a good premium. The biggest issue we have have is strip terrible on ewes and lambs from the rape, Iv come to the conclusion dorsets have poor feet, we have spent time with our vets looking at it and sampling but come no further forward. Purchased high health, ebv Rams but feet already seam issue with this years hogs, foot bathing seams the only answer but doesn't seem right you have to fortnightly Footbath to keep on top of it, no food rot. Haveing sheep suits our dairy system beef and arable but if we can't sort feet they will go, feels like the part of our mixed farming we arnt getting right. Any advice would be great.

 

[andybk]

We operate this system and our contract takes lambs from Jan to May paying a good premium. The biggest issue we have have is strip terrible on ewes and lambs from the rape, Iv come to the conclusion dorsets have poor feet, we have spent time with our vets looking at it and sampling but come no further forward. Purchased high health, ebv Rams but feet already seam issue with this years hogs, foot bathing seams the only answer but doesn't seem right you have to fortnightly Footbath to keep on top of it, no food rot. Haveing sheep suits our dairy system beef and arable but if we can't sort feet they will go, feels like the part of our mixed farming we arnt getting right. Any advice would be great.

have you thought about dorset x charollais ewes back to dorset or tex , a good % will lamb nearly as early as dorsets ,(we lamb pure char early dec no sponging) better feet and bit more vigour more % , they milk ok as well (far better than pure ch) we did find the ultimate was 3/4 dorset 1/4 ch back to ch . agree feet are dorsets biggest issue , and dopy pure lambs in the bag .
or even maybe IDF x dorset

 

[Martyn]

have you thought about dorset x charollais ewes back to dorset or tex , a good % will lamb nearly as early as dorsets ,(we lamb pure char early dec no sponging) better feet and bit more vigour more % , they milk ok as well (far better than pure ch) we did find the ultimate was 3/4 dorset 1/4 ch back to ch . agree feet are dorsets biggest issue , and dopy pure lambs in the bag .
or even maybe IDF x dorset

I looked at doing this last year when purchasing breeding rams. And was told by a couple of breeders that a charlais ram wouldnt work earlier enough? we have to keep a pedigree sire or dam for our meat cotract with dalehead. We have spoken to severl pedigree dorset breeders who say lamness not sn issue, but we arnt prepared to keep sheep if we cant get right. we use more antibiotics on our sheep than we do on our entire dairy and beef.

 

[andybk]

I looked at doing this last year when purchasing breeding rams. And was told by a couple of breeders that a charlais ram wouldnt work earlier enough? we have to keep a pedigree sire or dam for our meat cotract with dalehead. We have spoken to severl pedigree dorset breeders who say lamness not sn issue, but we arnt prepared to keep sheep if we cant get right. we use more antibiotics on our sheep than we do on our entire dairy and beef.

utter nonsense used them over dorsets for 20 years never an issue , (some of these upgraded texel crosses may be different though ) ,few years back i was lambing pure charollais in late october when the ram jumped in with a small group of pure shearlings in may , suffolk / texel on the other hand !
Char rams will work all year ,
dont get a big ram, medium size with some shape is plenty big enough with some length .
Feet are easy enough in most breeds to sort , you just need to be very strict getting rid of anything lame or marking it to go asap . its surprising get rid of a few carriers and the rest will sort themselves .be very careful what you bring in after , we had it with zwartbles at the start always lame , just bit the bullet and sent the bad ones on , some good ewes went , after a few years only odd one to treat.

 

[ajcc]

Always v.poor conception for sept. lambs.....much better lambing October, July and March than sept jan may in my experience.

 

[andybk]

Always v.poor conception for sept. lambs.....much better lambing October, July and March than sept jan may in my experience.

and sept can be fly risk on new borns

 

[Martyn]

Iv bought a 100 red tags so anything we pick up feet on will get one unless its a stone or horse thowrn. Its been difficult as been trying to build numbers started with 40 ewes from one closed flock all mv. between 100-200 now, all registerrd pedigree but would rather have profitable comercial than lame pedigrees so will look closly at mv charlais.

 

[CopperBeech]

Always v.poor conception for sept. lambs.....much better lambing October, July and March than sept jan may in my experience.

Our main lambing periods are September and May . . . . . . whoops!

 

[CopperBeech]

Iv bought a 100 red tags so anything we pick up feet on will get one unless its a stone or horse thowrn. Its been difficult as been trying to build numbers started with 40 ewes from one closed flock all mv. between 100-200 now, all registerrd pedigree but would rather have profitable comercial than lame pedigrees so will look closly at mv charlais.

We use charmoise, we find it works well for us.

Sourced the dorset ewes from a commercial breeder who ran a good system, no messing about.

No more issues with feet than any other sheep here.

 

[Keepers]

Always v.poor conception for sept. lambs.....much better lambing October, July and March than sept jan may in my experience.

Yes I agree! I have a similar experience.

I previously had gone and chose a flock of Dorset’s for someone, all hoggs off a good farm. They were put to the tup to lamb end of September but conception rates were very poor probably due them not being flushed and also not properly teased (teaser not in for full cycle before tups went in)

So a very small handful scanned in lamb (maybe 40ish) and ended up with those actually in lamb only lambing mainly October, producing a few lambs but not many, lambs did well on cover crops but again hardly any of them.

I guess it’s just important to learn from experiences and admit when and where we went wrong and then adjust in the future accordingly.

I would tease properly next time, and also run on better grass pre tupping. I’m interested to give it another go in the future but of course with better planning and I’m in a different location anyway now so different cover crops here etc

 

[andybk]

Yes I agree! I have a similar experience.

I previously had gone and chose a flock of Dorset’s for someone, all hoggs off a good farm. They were put to the tup to lamb end of September but conception rates were very poor probably due them not being flushed and also not properly teased (teaser not in for full cycle before tups went in)

So a very small handful scanned in lamb (maybe 40ish) and ended up with those actually in lamb only lambing mainly October, producing a few lambs but not many, lambs did well on cover crops but again hardly any of them.

I guess it’s just important to learn from experiences and admit when and where we went wrong and then adjust in the future accordingly.

I would tease properly next time, and also run on better grass pre tupping. I’m interested to give it another go in the future but of course with better planning and I’m in a different location anyway now so different cover crops here etc

not all poll dorsets lamb out of season (horn doesnt) some inbetween , they always had a main sale in may at dorchester , where the ones in the know would buy what they wanted , take them home and turn the rams in , any not gone first (or maybe second ) cycle , found their way to autumn breeding sales like wilton . The ones in the know then ended up with a flock that would breed anytime . it can be a long game getting what you want .
also About 20 odd years ago (prob when they joined signet ) they suddenly became bigger and longer , at the same time some dorset breeders were importing IDF on the qt , bred up under their testing station protocols (to get the figures into the dorset quickly ) , what that influence had on out of season breeding i dont know (do idf breed out of season > )

 

[CopperBeech]

Very true.

We have tried to skip the use of teaser and have used regulin as an experiment this year, just to see if it makes any difference, also with mature ewes rather than hoggs. Also have set aside some good grass for flushing, and contemplating using some molasses as an extra to try to kick them a long. Time will tell.

Have also looked at mineral status, and corrected an iodine deficiency. So fingers crossed it works out for September, however if not, October isn't an issue for us, we just ideally want to avoid the tail enders running too far into November.

 

[Martyn]

We use charmoise, we find it works well for us.

Sourced the dorset ewes from a commercial breeder who ran a good system, no messing about.

No more issues with feet than any other sheep here.

We purchased from a 300-400 hundred ewe flock that frequent lambs and renowd as one of the oldest flocks on the register. Sheep great mums and confirmation just dam feet.

What perecentage of flock would you expect to cull annually?