Great fertility
Sexed semen
- Thread starter mixed farm
- Start date
Great fertility
The shorthorns fertility was exactly the same as the Holsteins in this herd. So depending on which side of the fence you sit on either the cross bred cattle are poor or the Holsteins are fantastic for keeping up with them.
About what I get with Genus.
I check them once/day, using Estrotec patches to spot heats.
GenuineRisk
Member
- Location
- Somerset
interesting comments and conception rates. We do use a fair bit of sexed semen on the ped blues and the Newlands dairy herd relies heavily on female sexed to get replacement dairy heifers but it’s not a high performance / high yielding Holstein or similar herd, so comparisons are probably worthless. They use 4M straws, though and conception rates are good, mainly because they’re not block calving either, so additional stress levels are probably lower. On the cattle, anyway!
Because we’ve been using sexed semen a fair bit here at NewPole over the years, both on natural heats and flushing, you do get to notice certain factors will affect success, the main one being weather. Conception rates drop like a stone here if we get hot weather, especially recently with unseasonal high temperature in spring. Observation is key and so timing for serving. That said, no-one-size-fits-all practice ever works that well and the more stress the animal is under, the more we have to accept to get that higher conception figure, the more effort re observation and timing is needed. There are so many factors for us in breeding our AI destined ped bulls, from low birth weight figures, shorter gestation to high finishing figures. Bloody nightmare! Four cows on flush at the moment, two for export, two for ourselves, collection next Monday so we’ve everything crossed !
Because we’ve been using sexed semen a fair bit here at NewPole over the years, both on natural heats and flushing, you do get to notice certain factors will affect success, the main one being weather. Conception rates drop like a stone here if we get hot weather, especially recently with unseasonal high temperature in spring. Observation is key and so timing for serving. That said, no-one-size-fits-all practice ever works that well and the more stress the animal is under, the more we have to accept to get that higher conception figure, the more effort re observation and timing is needed. There are so many factors for us in breeding our AI destined ped bulls, from low birth weight figures, shorter gestation to high finishing figures. Bloody nightmare! Four cows on flush at the moment, two for export, two for ourselves, collection next Monday so we’ve everything crossed !
- Location
- South Molton
Same with Swedish reds and Swedish Holsteins.
Production as well Fertility and health traits were similar.
It's the fitting the cow to the system or visa versa.
Holsteinfriesian90
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
- Location
- South Molton
Majority British Friesian but with some Holstein for some traditional friesian type real short arsed cows
TheRanger
Member
- Location
- SW Scotland
Is there any research into a trait for semen fertility? Have found a large variance between bulls. @Rossymons
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In what regards - a genetic link from the male side to identify the super shooters? Or a way of expressing semen fertility in a rankable index?
TheRanger
Member
- Location
- SW Scotland
The latter, there must be a lot of data out there on each bulls average conception rates. Maybe less so on newly released genomic bulls.
Spudley
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
Don't WWS have something like that on their bulls?
When I was milking cows in a previous life I had a blazing row with AHDB Dairy at South West Dairy Event on the subject. The chap I argued with didn't answer my question nor even show any inclination that he understood why I felt it was important. That was a real blot on AHDB Dairys report card from me.
In my new life whilst I still understand the importance of having fertile semen I can see how publishing sire conception rates can be misleading and ranking them even worse.
Just this week on one farm I have bred 3 cows to the same bull. One from our detection system, one vet initiated where we serve the cow regardless and one on a CIDR synch on fixed AI. That vet initiated cow might not have been bulling - I have seen plenty of examples to back this up. Timings could be wrong on CIDR synch and there is no follicle to fertilise. Are either of those the fault of the bulls? Not really, no. Yet he could end up with a 33% success rate. Would you buy that bull? I wouldn't. But the data wouldn't show that the 67% of the time he couldn't have created a pregnancy even if he was the most fertile bull in the world.
Where do you get the data from? The only reliable way would be from NMR and CIS or whoever does full herd recording. Anywhere else is open to all sorts of interpretation.
Are those packages able to differentiate between serving a cow on a synch compared to a standing heat? That will have an influence.
How does a farmer determine a cow in heat? Is she standing? Did she just come in the parlour the wrong side or look at the herdsman funny? Is the inseminator handling the straw correctly and using the right technique?
All of this before we even begin to think about the existing genetics on farm, nutrition, housing, herd health etc.
You take that data from all milk recorded farms up and down the country and average it out you will have a very misleading average figure. The gist is that if it is known to affect fertility it will affect sire conception rate. Some farms are very good at getting cows in calf and some aren't. The most fertile bull in the world will not compensate for the problems on the poorer farms. On one of my best customers farm I can walk past the AI stalls waving the AI gun in the general direction of the cow and she will probably get in calf.
As for ranking these sires should that figure be available - would you trust them? A cheap bull could have a really poor figure simply because he is cheap so crack on regardless. You wouldn't use a £70 sexed straw of a top 10 bull without being absolutely certain she was bulling so naturally that bull would be used less. What about the difference between cows and heifers? We've been doing a big number of synchs on heifers lately. We serve them today and the bull goes in tomorrow. They'll be scanned sometime after Christmas. Who gets the PD+ - the bull in the straw of the bull in the field? There would need some balance in there somewhere to add some reliability behind the figures that you're looking at for them to be trustworthy otherwise what's the point?
So to try and round it all off...yes, Sire Conception Rate might be a useful tool to have but is only a small part of the overall puzzle. I do not buy the conspiracy theories that all studs sell nothing but crap semen. What is the point? We want to sell you a good product because we want you to come back for more. Has there been issues in the past at all studs? I would be amazed if there hasn't been quite frankly. But I bet there have been duff loads of cake sent on farm, I daren't think about how many thousands of tonnes of crap silage have been made over the years. Not a lot said about those.
I wouldn't get too worked up over it as you'll start seeing things that probably aren't there. If there is a problem with fertility and cows not getting incalf then I would start with the cow first and foremost.
Using up sexed straws I bought approx three years ago. Noticed some of the Milo straws are clear and I always had pink straws when sexed . Should I be worried? @Rossymons ..cogent straws.
If a cow comes bulling that you want to serve to Milo then chuck the straw in the thawer. If it sinks then you're fine. If it floats or pops then not fine.
3yrs is a long time to be sat at -200°C so it wouldn't surprise if they changed colour.
- Location
- somerset
we have just had 22 hfr calves from 31 calving's, all conventional semen. One jersey bull, all hfrs. Just waiting for the reversal, just as we start beef semen. We usually end up with more hfrs than bulls, every year, for years i put it down to nature, with hfrs, as we always ran young dairy bulls with them, nature producing more hfrs from young bulls, and bulls from the 'top herd bulls' that survived to become 'dominant', but it still works with ai ! Just another weird anomaly.
We emptied our flask out this year, it leaked, but among the straws floating around in the bottom, 1 sexed straw of gabys arrow, must be 4/5 years old, the cow is i/c, whether hfr or bull, remains to be seen.
We emptied our flask out this year, it leaked, but among the straws floating around in the bottom, 1 sexed straw of gabys arrow, must be 4/5 years old, the cow is i/c, whether hfr or bull, remains to be seen.
- Location
- Wiltshire
I will start this by saying that I don’t do the fertility/Ai work here but I am the one who pays the bills. Semen conception rate is a massive can of worms and I can see why it’s not published. I think @Rossymons
However we have managed to get something back from a semen supplier because of poor conception. It was obvious on our uniform software. Everything else was the same no change in who was doing the Ai, no whole herd issues we only Ai cows using the gea heat detection. The semen in question was useless compared to all the other bulls we were using at the time so there was really no argument.
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Holsteinfriesian90
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
I found some milo the other day and straws are clear too but that was 2m and not 4m.
Cases like yours above do happen and you wouldnt need an index to point it out. We had one in the past with a bull. Completely useless. When a neighbour mentioned the same bull in conversation at the pub the matter was swiftly dealt with.
One farm we service took a straw from each of bulls and tested it under a microscope. One bull from a competitor was stone dead - not a thing living. Appaling that that batch left the lab.
Sometimes a batch does leave with living but maybe poor swimmers. So long as the matter is dealt with quickly by both sides and an agreement is reached then that's the best anyone can hope for.
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- Location
- Shropshire
We had similar always use 4 or more different bulls for sexed and always have a straw from each batch kept in stock in case there’s an issue had a bull 3 years ago 85 straws 0 in calf tested it and was completely dead was getting 73 percent off the other 3 bulls got a fair pay out as it buggered the block some what disappointed it left the lab or was mishandled but it was sorted eventually even though at first we just got flat denials until they where presented with vet reports
- Location
- somerset
it's one thing AYR calving, completely different, and expensive, block calving.