SFI 23 AHL2 increasing area on pre capped agreements in year 2 and 3

[Richard84]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to increase the area of AHL2 in the second and third years of your agreement. Scheme states you can reduce down to a minimum of 50% of your original planted area but nothing I can see about a max. If you have a post 25% cap agreement it states you can’t exceed that 25% cap out of all the restricted options. I’m assuming that my pre cap agreement is still honoured and I could increase to what I like?

 

[Phil P]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to increase the area of AHL2 in the second and third years of your agreement. Scheme states you can reduce down to a minimum of 50% of your original planted area but nothing I can see about a max. If you have a post 25% cap agreement it states you can’t exceed that 25% cap out of all the restricted options. I’m assuming that my pre cap agreement is still honoured and I could increase to what I like?

Had this discussion on this thread-

AHL2 wild bird food drilling dates.

He has also been broadcasting ahl2 seed well well into August..... yea …….. that’s unlikely to achieve aims imo last week july is latest to realistically take this option into winter with aims being achieved

thefarmingforum.co.uk

The outcome was that apparently there’s no upper limit on pre 24 agreements.

 

[Richard84]

Thanks, did skim through that discussion but missed that bit. So would seem I could put the rest of the farm in if the weather stay’s poor. Will try and get a response in writing to clarify. That will no doubt take months and even then be vague and open to interpretation.

 

[Hindsight]

Thanks, did skim through that discussion but missed that bit. So would seem I could put the rest of the farm in if the weather stay’s poor. Will try and get a response in writing to clarify. That will no doubt take months and even then be vague and open to interpretation.

Do write to RPA setting out your request. I nd colleagues are finding responses are quite quick, within a few days, and quite clear and concise. Have had to follow up with a second request just to clarify but again dealt with promptly. Not guaranteeing that to be the case though.

 

[Billboy1]

My start date is dec 1st when do we get chance to up grade and what’s the format anyone know ?

 

[chipchap]

Surely with the weather being so crap, those of us with rotational options under SFI 2023 will be increasing the areas substantially in year two and possibly three.
This will have an effect on the RPA budget which will be very difficult for them to judge beforehand.

 

[EJS]

Surely with the weather being so crap, those of us with rotational options under SFI 2023 will be increasing the areas substantially in year two and possibly three.
This will have an effect on the RPA budget which will be very difficult for them to judge beforehand.

Exactly this - my start date 1st Nov and emailed asking when I can expand and they said I'd be notified when nearer start date as portal will open on my RPA login under SFI which I can alter areas.

 

[Richard84]

Probably be a retrospective rule change as in theory any of the rotational options could be maxed out as long as you had one Ha in year one. No wonder they put a 25% cap on further agreements.

Britains finest at the RPA, all those trial years working out the problems, then someone suddenly realised the whole budget could be spent with only a few hundred agreements. I’m still amazed at the speed the drawbridge was pulled up and the options capped. NFU didn’t push back about it, there’s a surprise.

 

[Phil P]

Probably be a retrospective rule change as in theory any of the rotational options could be maxed out as long as you had one Ha in year one. No wonder they put a 25% cap on further agreements.

Britains finest at the RPA, all those trial years working out the problems, then someone suddenly realised the whole budget could be spent with only a few hundred agreements. I’m still amazed at the speed the drawbridge was pulled up and the options capped. NFU didn’t push back about it, there’s a surprise.

The NFU actually backed the rule changes!

 

[case44]

I asked my agent yesterday to confirm that 2023 agreements will be able to increase areas on items that now have a limit.
I will let you know the outcome.

 

[Billboy1]

I asked my agent yesterday to confirm that 2023 agreements will be able to increase areas on items that now have a limit.
I will let you know the outcome.

I’ve already asked, the advice I got was you can if you’re pre 26th March 23 agreement and already doing the option

 

[Richard84]

This was the reply I received today.

Thank you for your email of 03/10/2024 about increasing/decreasing Rotational Options between years on your SFI23 Agreement .

I have made some enquiries about this and have been advised that as with decreasing an option by no more that 50% the same applies to increasing an option
Taking your example from your email:

Year One 100ha.
Year Two can be reduced down to (i)50ha or increased to up to (ii)150ha.
Year Three I am presuming that (i)50ha can be decreased to 25ha or increased to 75ha: (ii)150ha can be decreased to 75ha or increased 225ha.

The 25% rule was for limited area actions including IPM2. AHL1. AHL2. AHL3. IGL1.IGL2, which must not be more than 25% of the total agricultural area.

Also any increase of revenue over 10% is subject to approval.

As to notifying the intention to decrease or increase, submitting a "Change of Circumstance" requesting an "in year" change is best. To be actioned in time for the Year Two start date.

The Annual Declaration as I understand is more to confirm that the previous years commitments were achieved.

What you need to do
If you wish to increase/decrease AHL2 (or in fact any required changes), please submit a change of circumstance notification requesting an in year change. This is best submitted at the earliest opportunity to be approved and processed before the end of the Agreements first year.

 

[e3120]

That doesn't make much sense. An area change of a rotational option is hardly a change of circumstances for them to consider to accept or not, and somewhat laborious.

The 10% increase in revenue is another new one - there's the start of cost controls.

 

[Billboy1]

This was the reply I received today.

Thank you for your email of 03/10/2024 about increasing/decreasing Rotational Options between years on your SFI23 Agreement .

I have made some enquiries about this and have been advised that as with decreasing an option by no more that 50% the same applies to increasing an option
Taking your example from your email:

Year One 100ha.
Year Two can be reduced down to (i)50ha or increased to up to (ii)150ha.
Year Three I am presuming that (i)50ha can be decreased to 25ha or increased to 75ha: (ii)150ha can be decreased to 75ha or increased 225ha.

The 25% rule was for limited area actions including IPM2. AHL1. AHL2. AHL3. IGL1.IGL2, which must not be more than 25% of the total agricultural area.

Also any increase of revenue over 10% is subject to approval.

As to notifying the intention to decrease or increase, submitting a "Change of Circumstance" requesting an "in year" change is best. To be actioned in time for the Year Two start date.

The Annual Declaration as I understand is more to confirm that the previous years commitments were achieved.

What you need to do
If you wish to increase/decrease AHL2 (or in fact any required changes), please submit a change of circumstance notification requesting an in year change. This is best submitted at the earliest opportunity to be approved and processed before the end of the Agreements first year.

That flies in the face of all the advice so far given this needs to be cleared up urgently !

 

[yellow belly]

the original idea of changing areas was so that splitting fields could be avoided with rotational options which is what happens with stewardship

but as usual the reality is overcomplicated by farmers and the rpa by allowing 50% up or 50% up

would it have been better to give the flexibility of increasing or reducing to the nearest whole field

2 years ago it looked like very few farmers would apply when crop prices were £300 plus
now with prices as low as 150 every one wants apply

 

[EJS]

This is the reply I received - similar question - slightly different.

 

[Hindsight]

This was the reply I received today.

Thank you for your email of 03/10/2024 about increasing/decreasing Rotational Options between years on your SFI23 Agreement .

I have made some enquiries about this and have been advised that as with decreasing an option by no more that 50% the same applies to increasing an option
Taking your example from your email:

Year One 100ha.
Year Two can be reduced down to (i)50ha or increased to up to (ii)150ha.
Year Three I am presuming that (i)50ha can be decreased to 25ha or increased to 75ha: (ii)150ha can be decreased to 75ha or increased 225ha.

The 25% rule was for limited area actions including IPM2. AHL1. AHL2. AHL3. IGL1.IGL2, which must not be more than 25% of the total agricultural area.

Also any increase of revenue over 10% is subject to approval.

As to notifying the intention to decrease or increase, submitting a "Change of Circumstance" requesting an "in year" change is best. To be actioned in time for the Year Two start date.

The Annual Declaration as I understand is more to confirm that the previous years commitments were achieved.

What you need to do
If you wish to increase/decrease AHL2 (or in fact any required changes), please submit a change of circumstance notification requesting an in year change. This is best submitted at the earliest opportunity to be approved and processed before the end of the Agreements first year.

Richard, hi, is that a copy of an email received from RPA? Sorry for asking but having read through it a few times there seems some vagueness in the wording which I find a touch unusual from RPA.

 

[Billboy1]

 

[Billboy1]

This is the reply I got off rpa today?

 

[Richard84]

Richard, hi, is that a copy of an email received from RPA? Sorry for asking but having read through it a few times there seems some vagueness in the wording which I find a touch unusual from RPA.

Hi, sorry for late reply. Yes this was the exact wording I copied from the RPA to my query. I just cut my business details out.

Sounds like someone who doesn’t really know. I was going to go back and ask them to show me where in the guidance it states that I can only increase my area by 50% per year and what criteria would I need to meet to get approval. I wasn’t happy with the vagueness. Surely they should be able to back up what they are saying by quoting the scheme manual.

It really annoys me how back this time last year the scheme was designed to get max take up and to encourage you to potentially do more on year two and three and then the great lobbying NFU and quangos panicked because they thought the subs might go if there are less farmers and all the supply industries would go in to decline as the input spend would be substantially down. Now they’re trying to persuade everyone that the status quo must be maintained, but we won’t pay you any BPS and we will only pay old ELS rates for a bit of eco stuff in the corner of the farm.

Fortunately I got my 1/3 of the farm drilled up 10 days ago so I haven’t got to deal with the stress of changing the area substantially in my agreement.