SFI Sam3

[Jimmy the bull]

Just had a look at this, it’s seems a lot more open to interpretation than GS4

am I right in saying I could put a herbal ley in that is 70% rye grass with the other grasses / herbs etc making up the other 30% , leave it between start may and end july for 5 weeks , ie take a 1st cut late May/ early June then leave it, which would still give easily 5 weeks . Then graze it after or take a 2nd cut, and as long as I can show it was sown up properly with seed invoices and pics of the work then I can claim £383 / hec . If it doesn’t take fully in the 1st year then maybe re drill at 1/2 rate 2nd and 3rd year ? They even say in the guidance that it could take 4 years to establish.

If that’s the case seems like a no brainer to me. Am I wrong ?

 

[paul&mandy]

Just had a look at this, it’s seems a lot more open to interpretation than GS4

am I right in saying I could put a herbal ley in that is 70% rye grass with the other grasses / herbs etc making up the other 30% , leave it between start may and end july for 5 weeks , ie take a 1st cut late May/ early June then leave it, which would still give easily 5 weeks . Then graze it after or take a 2nd cut, and as long as I can show it was sown up properly with seed invoices and pics of the work then I can claim £383 / hec . If it doesn’t take fully in the 1st year then maybe re drill at 1/2 rate 2nd and 3rd year ? They even say in the guidance that it could take 4 years to establish.

If that’s the case seems like a no brainer to me. Am I wrong ?

We are looking at that and I believe you don't need a closed period like gs4 so could in theory graze or cut when you like.

 

[L P]

We are looking at that and I believe you don't need a closed period like gs4 so could in theory graze or cut when you like.

No rules on grazing/cutting, so long as its established and maintained

 

[2tractors]

Just had a look at this, it’s seems a lot more open to interpretation than GS4

am I right in saying I could put a herbal ley in that is 70% rye grass with the other grasses / herbs etc making up the other 30% , leave it between start may and end july for 5 weeks , ie take a 1st cut late May/ early June then leave it, which would still give easily 5 weeks . Then graze it after or take a 2nd cut, and as long as I can show it was sown up properly with seed invoices and pics of the work then I can claim £383 / hec . If it doesn’t take fully in the 1st year then maybe re drill at 1/2 rate 2nd and 3rd year ? They even say in the guidance that it could take 4 years to establish.

If that’s the case seems like a no brainer to me. Am I wrong ?

The only bit you have got wrong is the total weight of grasses, minimum 2, is 70% of the mix. The PRG will need to be bit less than 70%.

Given you could DD into an existing sward it's all a bit subjective though.

 

[pom]

The only bit you have got wrong is the total weight of grasses, minimum 2, is 70% of the mix. The PRG will need to be bit less than 70%.

Given you could DD into an existing sward it's all a bit subjective though.

have you got that in print from rpa ,as i can only get what they use for cs which are not the same as sfi .have been told as long as you achieve the aims with a mixture of grass/legumes and herbs .

 

[Jimmy the bull]

have you got that in print from rpa ,as i can only get what they use for cs which are not the same as sfi .have been told as long as you achieve the aims with a mixture of grass/legumes and herbs .

This is from the link in the online handbook , However it does say in the handbook it is only guidance and it is up to the individual to achieve the aim.

How to establish and maintain herbal leys (SAM3)

What you’re aiming to achieve​

The aim of SAM3 is to provide varied root structures.

Establishing the herbal leys​

Choosing a seed mix​

You can choose what mix of grasses, legumes and herbs to use in the herbal ley.

The correct seed mix is vital to growing a high-quality herbal ley. It will usually include at least:

• 5 species of grass, such as cocksfoot, festulolium, meadow fescue, perennial ryegrass, smooth-stalked meadow grass, tall fescue and timothy
• 3 species of legumes, such as bird’s-foot-trefoil, lucerne, red clover, sainfoin winter vetch and common vetch, and black medick
• 5 species of herbs, such as burnet, chicory, ribwort plantain and yarrow

Avoid festulolium and perennial ryegrass combined making up more than 70% by weight of the total seed mix.

Your seed supplier can help you choose a seed mix that is the best match for your land, local conditions and how you’ll manage the ley.

Maintaining the herbal leys​

You can maintain herbal leys by grazing them with livestock or cutting them.

Between the start of May and the end of July, you can rest the herbal leys from cutting and grazing for a period of at least around 5 weeks. This allows the flowers to open and provide a source of pollen and nectar for insects.

It can take up to 4 years for the roots to grow enough to improve soil structure and fertility.

 

[2tractors]

Jimmy beat me too it!!

How to do the SFI actions for soils

Find out how you could do the SFI actions for soils.

www.gov.uk

 

[Northern territory]

It’s becoming clear after reading a few threads on here than non of these options are easily filtered into existing farming enterprises which I guess is the aim anyway.

 

[pom]

This is from the link in the online handbook , However it does say in the handbook it is only guidance and it is up to the individual to achieve the aim.

How to establish and maintain herbal leys (SAM3)

What you’re aiming to achieve​

The aim of SAM3 is to provide varied root structures.

Establishing the herbal leys​

Choosing a seed mix​

You can choose what mix of grasses, legumes and herbs to use in the herbal ley.

The correct seed mix is vital to growing a high-quality herbal ley. It will usually include at least:

• 5 species of grass, such as cocksfoot, festulolium, meadow fescue, perennial ryegrass, smooth-stalked meadow grass, tall fescue and timothy
• 3 species of legumes, such as bird’s-foot-trefoil, lucerne, red clover, sainfoin winter vetch and common vetch, and black medick
• 5 species of herbs, such as burnet, chicory, ribwort plantain and yarrow

Avoid festulolium and perennial ryegrass combined making up more than 70% by weight of the total seed mix.

Your seed supplier can help you choose a seed mix that is the best match for your land, local conditions and how you’ll manage the ley.

Maintaining the herbal leys​

You can maintain herbal leys by grazing them with livestock or cutting them.

Between the start of May and the end of July, you can rest the herbal leys from cutting and grazing for a period of at least around 5 weeks. This allows the flowers to open and provide a source of pollen and nectar for insects.

It can take up to 4 years for the roots to grow enough to improve soil structure and fertility.

 

[pom]

as it says its only guidance , so its up to you to plant what you think will achieve the aims on your farm . we farmers like a gamble

 

[Jimmy the bull]

It’s becoming clear after reading a few threads on here than non of these options are easily filtered into existing farming enterprises which I guess is the aim anyway.

I’d disagree, unless you are a multi cut silage man, you could still drill a high sugar silage or grazing mix predominantly made up of perennials. graze or take 2 cuts and as long as you allow the herbs and legumes chance to grow to me it looks like you will meet the criteria.

 

[Northern territory]

I’d disagree, unless you are a multi cut silage man, you could still drill a high sugar silage or grazing mix predominantly made up of perennials. graze or take 2 cuts and as long as you allow the herbs and legumes chance to grow to me it looks like you will meet the criteria.

So how many species will they expect to find on inspection, that is quite a list on the post above. I agree it is less restrictive than the over winter seed option on grazing and cutting

 

[Jimmy the bull]

Yes but it’s not compulsory, it should only be used as a guide, it also says that. From experience herbal leys can take a few years to establish, I can’t see them failing someone for attempting to establish a ley if a few species die off, Most likely any sanfoin in a mix will fail on most ground in the uk. The CS GS4 regs felt like you were giving up farming to grow flowers, this feels more like being paid to carry on with livestock production but slightly tweaking the system to have more environmental focus.

 

[4course]

This is from the link in the online handbook , However it does say in the handbook it is only guidance and it is up to the individual to achieve the aim.

How to establish and maintain herbal leys (SAM3)

What you’re aiming to achieve​

The aim of SAM3 is to provide varied root structures.

Establishing the herbal leys​

Choosing a seed mix​

You can choose what mix of grasses, legumes and herbs to use in the herbal ley.

The correct seed mix is vital to growing a high-quality herbal ley. It will usually include at least:

• 5 species of grass, such as cocksfoot, festulolium, meadow fescue, perennial ryegrass, smooth-stalked meadow grass, tall fescue and timothy
• 3 species of legumes, such as bird’s-foot-trefoil, lucerne, red clover, sainfoin winter vetch and common vetch, and black medick
• 5 species of herbs, such as burnet, chicory, ribwort plantain and yarrow

Avoid festulolium and perennial ryegrass combined making up more than 70% by weight of the total seed mix.

Your seed supplier can help you choose a seed mix that is the best match for your land, local conditions and how you’ll manage the ley.

Maintaining the herbal leys​

You can maintain herbal leys by grazing them with livestock or cutting them.

Between the start of May and the end of July, you can rest the herbal leys from cutting and grazing for a period of at least around 5 weeks. This allows the flowers to open and provide a source of pollen and nectar for insects.

It can take up to 4 years for the roots to grow enough to improve soil structure and fertility.

This 4 year sentence gives me cause for concern re herbal leys.
The scheme we are signing up for is 3 years so why the mention of 4 . So what happens in year 4 could we suddenly find that the herbal ley in year 4 at the end of year 3 becomes protected and therefore restricted on any future use.
As far as herbal leys are concerned reckon unless its absolutely poor land with very low potential im out ,.

 

[Badshot]

This 4 year sentence gives me cause for concern re herbal leys.
The scheme we are signing up for is 3 years so why the mention of 4 . So what happens in year 4 could we suddenly find that the herbal ley in year 4 at the end of year 3 becomes protected and therefore restricted on any future use.
As far as herbal leys are concerned reckon unless its absolutely poor land with very low potential im out ,.

It's guidance only.

Do what you feel will work.

 

[4course]

It's guidance only.

Do what you feel will work.

yes but cynic that I am over this mention of 4 yr. If my or my landlords land becomes fixed into eternity as herbal ley it has far reaching consequences way above taking 3 years of silver. Im very wary of creating a capital loss in the future. It is in our hands to avoid such a possibility , lets face it it only needs a rare butterfly to take up residence and you could well find yourself in self destruct mode.

 

[pom]

i think we need to stop using cs rules for sfi , nowhere in the sfi rules does it say how long you need keep sam 3 , a mixture of grass/legume and herb for . dont get coned into an expensive herbal ley from the seed trade !

 

[Badshot]

i think we need to stop using cs rules for sfi , nowhere in the sfi rules does it say how long you need keep sam 3 , a mixture of grass/legume and herb for . dont get coned into an expensive herbal ley from the seed trade !

Yup, neighbours are being quoted horrific prices of mixes for legumes, 3 times what my mix is, cant see why mine won't grow and it meets the requirements.

 

[steveR]

Maintaining the herbal leys​

You can maintain herbal leys by grazing them with livestock or cutting them.

Between the start of May and the end of July, you can rest the herbal leys from cutting and grazing for a period of at least around 5 weeks. This allows the flowers to open and provide a source of pollen and nectar for insects.

It can take up to 4 years for the roots to grow enough to improve soil structure and fertility.

By which time, most of the "herbs" will have gone....

 

[steveR]

yes but cynic that I am over this mention of 4 yr. If my or my landlords land becomes fixed into eternity as herbal ley it has far reaching consequences way above taking 3 years of silver. Im very wary of creating a capital loss in the future. It is in our hands to avoid such a possibility , lets face it it only needs a rare butterfly to take up residence and you could well find yourself in self destruct mode.

Use a mower....