Sheep , cows and small farms

[Wood field]

We used to be all cattle on our farm , only 50 Angus cross, wintered from nov to May they just couldn’t pay so we went all sheep.
Just reading various threads on sucklers etc and I can’t see how we could make them work, however we do have a 100 x 50’ shed plus a 90x30’ lean too, mrs L has a few Dunn Galloway cows and our old home reared whitbred shorthorn bull.
Question is .. if I lamb all the ewes outside, would there be any merit in rearing cows inside through the winter ?
min yellow peril form here’s the farm facts :-
175 acres plus moorland grazing for 100 ewes
Currently run 600 ewes , keep all replacements
Land wet and steep running from 1000’ to 1400’ Pennines ie we don’t grow fodder crops exept our pp
Mow around 35 acres !

 

[spin cycle]

straw is going to be a big cost

 

[Wood field]

straw is going to be a big cost

Yes winter was a killer !

 

[toquark]

Rear calves? Keep the muck, best of both worlds without the hassle and risk of running sucklers

 

[Wood field]

Rear calves? Keep the muck, best of both worlds without the hassle and risk of running sucklers

Yes that what were looking at , buy in backend and get rid in spring, keeping the ground for the sheep

 

[Formatted]

36p per day on straw adds up over a 181 day winter, plus the fuel if you're spreading it

 

[toquark]

Yes that what were looking at , buy in backend and get rid in spring, keeping the ground for the sheep

There’s a decent sized cattle man/dealer here who will pay you to keep his stock, supply straw, silage and vet cover, you just provide husbandry and shed space. Price per head per week. Always thought it was a nice simple way of doing things, the risks really all on the owner of the stock.

 

[Wood field]

36p per day on straw adds up over a 181 day winter, plus the fuel if you're spreading it

We always did it the hard way , by hand !

 

[neilo]

We always did it the hard way , by hand !

You presumably spread what it turns into by machine though?.

 

[Wood field]

You presumably spread what it turns into by machine though?.

Yes we’re not in to spreading it by hand !
one of the things I miss about the cows was the manure to spread , we never bought in any till

 

[Estate fencing.]

175 acres plus moorland grazing for 100 ewes
Currently run 600 ewes , keep all replacements

That’s a quite high stocking rate.

 

[Jimfandango]

That’s a quite high stocking rate.

It does sound high to me

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

You could keep e.g. 20 cows quite cheaply. Plenty of buildings so spread them out thinly in the winter and you won’t need as much straw. If they could go out into an open yard even better) The muck is valuable especially on upland soils, it seems to do more good that the analysis says it should (probably down to improving soil structure)

Mixed grazing will mean you carry more livestock units per acre and the sheep will do better. It may also give you the opportunity to have some fields of (clean) grass for lambs. Your main problem will be winter feed if you only mow 35 acres but silage/hay can often be bought for less that it costs to make. (On a wet upland farm don’t even consider outwintering other than a handful)

Much as I like native cattle you need the £200 to £300 extra you get for continentals but don’t go too extreme, first or second cross from dairy if you want an easy life. Limousin bull. Creep the calves and get them away by 12 months, if you can split them, leave bulls entire. Calve all the year round and just leave the bull in with the cows, you will get higher average lifetime production and it spreads sales

It’s not a lot of cattle but run with sheep and having existing buildings they aren’t so expensive to keep and the £20,000 you get from calf sales will be useful, your sheep will also do better.

Sorry if a lot of that isn’t politically correct

 

[unlacedgecko]

That’s a quite high stocking rate.

It's less than 4 ewes per acre. Take the 100 moorland ewes off and it's less than 3 ewes per acre.

 

[Wood field]

That’s a quite high stocking rate.

It is , I’ve replacement gimmers on away ground , usually keep 50 odd but I’ve 100 on at the minute, can always pull groups out and send in as big stores or fat
100 on moor , can sneak another 50 out if need be , rest in bye
Heavy stocking but it all we can do on small farm.
This year I’ve culled very hard so have 471 ( we went through them on Friday) so about 3 to the acre

 

[Estate fencing.]

It's less than 4 ewes per acre. Take the 100 moorland ewes off and it's less than 3 ewes per acre.

Yes high for over 1000’ grazing, we got no where near that and will grow forage crops and house all the ewes in January to build up a wedge for ewes and lambs.

 

[Wood field]

Yes high for over 1000’ grazing, we got no where near that and will grow forage crops and house all the ewes in January to build up a wedge for ewes and lambs.

Usually I house 200 from Jan till mid March lambing, they are on a block of 60 acres ( I like to keep it down to 180) this year I’ve 182 on that 60 acre piece
That then leaves a 35 acre block with 80 on and the rest at home or on the moor .
Interesting that this years lambs were the best we’ve done , not fat but good growing stores , maybe lucky with weather. Maybe the vit drenching and getting on top of them .
It can be done but more stock equals more feed / worm etc

 

[Estate fencing.]

Usually I house 200 from Jan till mid March lambing, they are on a block of 60 acres ( I like to keep it down to 180) this year I’ve 182 on that 60 acre piece
That then leaves a 35 acre block with 80 on and the rest at home or on the moor .
Interesting that this years lambs were the best we’ve done , not fat but good growing stores , maybe lucky with weather. Maybe the vit drenching and getting on top of them .
It can be done but more stock equals more feed / worm etc

You know your farm better than anyone else.

 

[Wood field]

You could keep e.g. 20 cows quite cheaply. Plenty of buildings so spread them out thinly in the winter and you won’t need as much straw. If they could go out into an open yard even better) The muck is valuable especially on upland soils, it seems to do more good that the analysis says it should (probably down to improving soil structure)

Mixed grazing will mean you carry more livestock units per acre and the sheep will do better. It may also give you the opportunity to have some fields of (clean) grass for lambs. Your main problem will be winter feed if you only mow 35 acres but silage/hay can often be bought for less that it costs to make. (On a wet upland farm don’t even consider outwintering other than a handful)

Much as I like native cattle you need the £200 to £300 extra you get for continentals but don’t go too extreme, first or second cross from dairy if you want an easy life. Limousin bull. Creep the calves and get them away by 12 months, if you can split them, leave bulls entire. Calve all the year round and just leave the bull in with the cows, you will get higher average lifetime production and it spreads sales

It’s not a lot of cattle but run with sheep and having existing buildings they aren’t so expensive to keep and the £20,000 you get from calf sales will be useful, your sheep will also do better.

Sorry if a lot of that isn’t politically correct

We used to keep Angus X out of dairy cows, bulled to whitbred shorthorn
Only got little hairy calf’s but, easy calving and easy to handle .
Downside £ 350 -£400 a calf in September/ October

 

[Wood field]

You know your farm better than anyone else.

Also the sheep! Cheviot x Welsh , very thrifty
Couldn’t do it with big sheep, but as with the calf’s we won’t get big sheep money at mart