Silage / Straw / Hay Price Tracker

[livestock 1]

That could well happen at Stow this week - not that its ran but a-few people desperate for straw argue over a-few lots then suddenly thats the new price

There was a set up a few years back where there was a shortage on the go where there was a couple of loads of hay turned up deliberately ran to a silly figure passed out then all of a sudden all of the hay was set at that price. The quote was well there was some at that price and it was passed out the reality was there was no one in a set up job

 

[livestock 1]

how far do you have to cart it to make it unviable. Always a lot knocking around in lincs which is at least two hours from me.

Some of the fodder that goes there is already sold locally it just called in there to set a price

 

[Northern territory]

Some of the fodder that goes there is already sold locally it just called in there to set a price

Yeah my point was I don’t really know the haulage costs per tonne if you like? Say it came out of a so called cheaper area. Only buy it locally if I can.

 

[livestock 1]

Yeah my point was I don’t really know the haulage costs per tonne if you like? Say it came out of a so called cheaper area. Only buy it locally if I can.

Yes I see what you mean. I’m in the north east and wheat from Lincolnshire will cost as much or more to haul up here than the cost of the straw. So might as well buy it locally. The price here is probably based on what it would cost to get here from Lincolnshire for example

 

[livestock 1]

The dealers like their pound of flesh usually. You can get it here cheaper off a general haulier but they aren’t all willing to move straw by any means. If you use a dealer to haul it you can end up letting him in on the deal for want of better words

 

[big dog rex]

Yeah my point was I don’t really know the haulage costs per tonne if you like? Say it came out of a so called cheaper area. Only buy it locally if I can.

I don’t think there are any cheaper areas now like there was 10 years ago. I am from the South East which used to be a cheaper area. Now there are at least half a dozen large straw importers from Holland and Belgium clearing many tonnes of straw and hay from here. Haulage is relatively cheap as there are many foreign trucks looking for a back load

 

[Northern territory]

The dealers like their pound of flesh usually. You can get it here cheaper off a general haulier but they aren’t all willing to move straw by any means. If you use a dealer to haul it you can end up letting him in on the deal for want of better words

Yes I thought that would be the case. Used to be a guy round here always had a top notch Range Rover, dealing cattle and straw. A local farm I did a bit of work on sold straw through this guy and a lot used to go over A66 and end up at Newton Stewart. God knows what price it ended up at when it got there.

 

[livestock 1]

I don’t think there are any cheaper areas now like there was 10 years ago. I am from the South East which used to be a cheaper area. Now there are at least half a dozen large straw importers from Holland and Belgium clearing many tonnes of straw and hay from here. Haulage is relatively cheap as there are many foreign trucks looking for a back load

Wheat in 4x4 is usually advertised around £40 a tonne Lincolnshire area pre haulage on a normal year. Maybe not last 2/3 but within 10 for certain

 

[Northern territory]

B&B pigs are buggering it round here.

 

[livestock 1]

B&B pigs are buggering it round here.

I don’t mind it going in any direction except burners and Ireland

 

[big dog rex]

Wheat in 4x4 is usually advertised around £40 a tonne Lincolnshire area pre haulage on a normal year. Maybe not last 2/3 but within 10 for certain

The problem down the east side of the country now is zero till. Acres of straw still standing in the fields also the power plants soaking up any excess

 

[Derrick Hughes]

When I started straw in Kent was-£10 cheaper than Cotswolds . Now if anything its dearer as is Essex and Lincolnshire

 

[Northern territory]

I don’t mind it going in any direction except burners and Ireland

Can’t disagree with you there.

 

[Goweresque]

Hell yes I would!!

If I could get a fixed price of £60/t for ten years my accountant wouldn't just want to sleep with me he would want to run away with me! Being able to fix winter costings is half the battle here.

We buy through a merchant so I don't get to meet the producers but if I did you wouldn't get "his price is cheaper than yours" off me as long as its fair on both sides and not a one year wonder.

The problem is multi-fold - firstly there's the delivery cost, which varies massively, depending where the producer and consumer are located. The buyer wants a delivered price, and doesn't care where it comes from, the producer doesn't care where its going, he's just interested in the ex-farm price. So unless you can get a direct deal, producer straight to consumer, there's always that unknown delivery cost in the middle messing the sums up. Both parties can't have a fixed price with a variable cost in between them.

Secondly, yields vary around the country, so straw may be short in one place and worth a lot, but plentiful elsewhere so prices are low (as seems to be the case this year with straw available in Scotland but like hens teeth in the south).

Thirdly no producer is going to want to contract to guarantee straw many years into the future, because the weather often refuses to play ball, and the option of being able to switch the chopper on will always be needed. So no merchant is ever going to be able to secure guaranteed supplies from a fixed location (and thus relatively fixed delivery costs) to be able to offer the same to the consumer.

Unless producers invested in storage space, and were able to fill barns in good years, and release it in the poor years, you aren't going to able to square the circle. We are dealing with natural forces here - the weather dictates how much straw there is overall, which locations it yields well and where it doesn't, and whether it can easily be harvested and baled in good conditions. And of course it affects the consumer as well, as wet (or dry) autumns and springs will affect demand considerably.

And of course consumers could invest in storage too, so they filled their barns in glut years and didn't need to buy in tight years.

Finally there's the financial trust element in a long term agreement - if the producer agrees a long term deal with the consumer and the first 3 years are all cheap market price years, how many consumers would stick to the agreement? Equally if there's a run of high market price years how many producers would stick to it either?

This argument is had every time there's a shortage and prices rise rapidly. The 'pay the going market rate' system may not be great, but its probably the best of a bad bunch. All the other ways of doing it have significant flaws too.

 

[livestock 1]

There’s a lot less straw now because it’s bred to grow short. I can remember crops a lot higher than now.

 

[Celt83]

The problem is multi-fold - firstly there's the delivery cost, which varies massively, depending where the producer and consumer are located. The buyer wants a delivered price, and doesn't care where it comes from, the producer doesn't care where its going, he's just interested in the ex-farm price. So unless you can get a direct deal, producer straight to consumer, there's always that unknown delivery cost in the middle messing the sums up. Both parties can't have a fixed price with a variable cost in between them.

Secondly, yields vary around the country, so straw may be short in one place and worth a lot, but plentiful elsewhere so prices are low (as seems to be the case this year with straw available in Scotland but like hens teeth in the south).

Thirdly no producer is going to want to contract to guarantee straw many years into the future, because the weather often refuses to play ball, and the option of being able to switch the chopper on will always be needed. So no merchant is ever going to be able to secure guaranteed supplies from a fixed location (and thus relatively fixed delivery costs) to be able to offer the same to the consumer.

Unless producers invested in storage space, and were able to fill barns in good years, and release it in the poor years, you aren't going to able to square the circle. We are dealing with natural forces here - the weather dictates how much straw there is overall, which locations it yields well and where it doesn't, and whether it can easily be harvested and baled in good conditions. And of course it affects the consumer as well, as wet (or dry) autumns and springs will affect demand considerably.

And of course consumers could invest in storage too, so they filled their barns in glut years and didn't need to buy in tight years.

Finally there's the financial trust element in a long term agreement - if the producer agrees a long term deal with the consumer and the first 3 years are all cheap market price years, how many consumers would stick to the agreement? Equally if there's a run of high market price years how many producers would stick to it either?

This argument is had every time there's a shortage and prices rise rapidly. The 'pay the going market rate' system may not be great, but its probably the best of a bad bunch. All the other ways of doing it have significant flaws too.

I am just slightly confused, I thought you quoted me as saying that I wouldn't be happy paying £60/t for straw if the national price was lower.

I gave you an honest answer yet you have given umpteen excuses why the the price should be kept up!

Like it or not but these seesaw prices are no good for anyone and a few more years of high prices could see the straw trade disintegrate.

 

[Purli R]

And how much is the straw then?

No idea,top secret.Thankfully we got filled up in spring & august.

 

[Goweresque]

I am just slightly confused, I thought you quoted me as saying that I wouldn't be happy paying £60/t for straw if the national price was lower.

I gave you an honest answer yet you have given umpteen excuses why the the price should be kept up!

Like it or not but these seesaw prices are no good for anyone and a few more years of high prices could see the straw trade disintegrate.

I never quoted you as anything, I asked if you would be happy paying over the odds for straw in a year when the market price was on the floor. You might be, most people aren't. Whether £60/tonne is the correct mid point between boom and bust I couldn't say, on reflection my feeling is it would need to be slightly higher.

I'm not arguing that 'prices should be kept up' I'm arguing that fixed long term deals just aren't practical in the straw market, for all the reasons I laid out.

If you want to fix your long term straw cost, build yourself a mega-barn capable of holding at least 3 winters straw consumption and stuff it full of straw in a glut year, and only restock it when prices drop to your long term average price or below. Then you can guarantee that your long term price of straw will be below the average market price at least. Expecting the producer to fix the price of a product whose output is massively affected by the weather is optimistic in the extreme.

 

[Celt83]

I never quoted you as anything, I asked if you would be happy paying over the odds for straw in a year when the market price was on the floor. You might be, most people aren't. Whether £60/tonne is the correct mid point between boom and bust I couldn't say, on reflection my feeling is it would need to be slightly higher.

I'm not arguing that 'prices should be kept up' I'm arguing that fixed long term deals just aren't practical in the straw market, for all the reasons I laid out.

If you want to fix your long term straw cost, build yourself a mega-barn capable of holding at least 3 winters straw consumption and stuff it full of straw in a glut year, and only restock it when prices drop to your long term average price or below. Then you can guarantee that your long term price of straw will be below the average market price at least. Expecting the producer to fix the price of a product whose output is massively affected by the weather is optimistic in the extreme.

Yes and I answered truthfully by saying if the national average was lower I would honor the price, the same as if the national price was higher then the the price should be still honored. The producers get the price we agree and I get a product I can factor in to store/fat cattle costs. I'm not looking to stiff anyone.

Let's agree to disagree on this as I think we are barking up two totally different trees/mega barns!

 

[Goweresque]

Yes and I answered truthfully by saying if the national average was lower I would honor the price, the same as if the national price was higher then the the price should be still honored. The producers get the price we agree and I get a product I can factor in to store/fat cattle costs. I'm not looking to stiff anyone.

Let's agree to disagree on this as I think we are barking up two totally different trees/mega barns!

Well if thats what you want why don't you go and make it happen then? Speak to some straw producers not a million miles from you and offer them a deal? Pick a year when the price is low to pique their interest and offer them a long term contract for X tonnes of straw per year at a price you consider fair to both sides. If you're correct and thats what producers want, they'll jump at the chance won't they?