Skyfall - How late dare you sow?

[Hindsight]

I believe it requires multiple days of this sort of temperature. The number of days required depends on the variety and can be up to around 30 or more.

Yes, the temperature accrual is over a period of days. Thus why one very cold night does not have an additive effect, and actually very low temperatures are not helpful. And it is not hard and fast. Thus the latest safe sowing dates are somewhat vague as locality can have so much impact - high up in North Yorkshire versus by the sea in Devon. As for me - well I said March 14 as latest date for Skyfall and am sticking to that. So have advised stop. I have seen occasional headlands and part fields not produce any ears when wrong variety sown to finish off a field. Enough things to go wrong without adding another worry. Cheers.

 

[Devil's advocate]

AHDB webiste

• Vernalisation: A period of cool temperatures (0–12ºC) advances floral development and reduces the duration of the foundation phase. The majority of winter wheat varieties respond strongly to vernalisation, and spring wheats may have a slight response

i have no idea if 2 weeks at 5 degrees is the same as higher temps, your past the breeders guarantee so its into gambling territory

1st Match is my cut off day, which I'm told is reckless. The science is quite poor though, there seems to be no detailed research.

Does 0 degree at night cause more vernalisation than 5 degree at night ? Or is it the total hours below 5 degrees?

I'm happy with my gamble, milder the better at the moment, get it motoring along & then hope for cool nights later in the season.

Yes, the temperature accrual is over a period of days. Thus why one very cold night does not have an additive effect, and actually very low temperatures are not helpful. And it is not hard and fast. Thus the latest safe sowing dates are somewhat vague as locality can have so much impact - high up in North Yorkshire versus by the sea in Devon. As for me - well I said March 14 as latest date for Skyfall and am sticking to that. So have advised stop. I have seen occasional headlands and part fields not produce any ears when wrong variety sown to finish off a field. Enough things to go wrong without adding another worry. Cheers.

Looking at my forecast at least half of the nights will go down to 5 C but quite mild in the day time. Can get colder in April of course.

 

[Hindsight]

1st Match is my cut off day, which I'm told is reckless. The science is quite poor though, there seems to be no detailed research.

Does 0 degree at night cause more vernalisation than 5 degree at night ? Or is it the total hours below 5 degrees?

I'm happy with my gamble, milder the better at the moment, get it motoring along & then hope for cool nights later in the season.

Looking at my forecast at least half of the nights will go down to 5 C but quite mild in the day time. Can get colder in April of course.

Disagree DA. The Science is sound and there is detailed fundamental research. But what you all are asking is for advice (with no come back!) for a specific variety, in your location with the weather to come that may be average or vary from the average. Goodness that is an ask DA, to be frank! As it is all varieties are placed in breeders trials to allow them to give a broad categorization. And please remember there is a clue in the title 'WINTER' Wheat. The assumption is it will be sown in Autumn not pushed into Spring, for which there are specific varieties bred with no vernalisation requirement, so this conversation is not necessary. Yes, I appreciate the commercial aspects this Spring but the fundamentals still apply. Cheers. Just because folk cannot find the answer they want to find please do not shoot the messenger!

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

What we need is someone with a few cattle to sow some in April and tell us how it does.

If it doesn't put out a seed head, make some silage.

I think I heard late March for a successful sowing.

 

[Hindsight]

What we need is someone with a few cattle to sow some in April and tell us how it does.

If it doesn't put out a seed head, make some silage.

I think I heard late March for a successful sowing.

No. You will be none or only little the wiser. As it will be very specific conditions. And not a guide for general use.

Also the lack of vernalisation often manifests as the plants get to around end of tillering and beginning of stem extension and then do not grow further, so there is a very disappointing yield for silage. But by all means have a go and report back.

 

[CPF]

Just been looking at previous threads on skyfall
Some have planted in April .

 

[Sam Partridge]

Disagree DA. The Science is sound and there is detailed fundamental research. But what you all are asking is for advice (with no come back!) for a specific variety, in your location with the weather to come that may be average or vary from the average. Goodness that is an ask DA, to be frank! As it is all varieties are placed in breeders trials to allow them to give a broad categorization. And please remember there is a clue in the title 'WINTER' Wheat. The assumption is it will be sown in Autumn not pushed into Spring, for which there are specific varieties bred with no vernalisation requirement, so this conversation is not necessary. Yes, I appreciate the commercial aspects this Spring but the fundamentals still apply. Cheers. Just because folk cannot find the answer they want to find please do not shoot the messenger!

Is this why you're called Hindsight, absolutely no advice about the future offered

 

[Hindsight]

Is this why you're called Hindsight, absolutely no advice about the future offered

Yes, that is me.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

No. You will be none or only little the wiser. As it will be very specific conditions. And not a guide for general use.

Also the lack of vernalisation often manifests as the plants get to around end of tillering and beginning of stem extension and then do not grow further, so there is a very disappointing yield for silage. But by all means have a go and report back.

Good point about a trial in that field in that year.

 

[bobk]

Didn't @Wombat sow some in 19

 

[Zan]

I put some in Saturday

 

[Adeptandy]

I thought Skyfall had s wheat parentage, or have I dreamt this

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

Didn't @Wombat sow some in 19

It's had plenty of time to vernalise by now...

 

[Neddy flanders]

Skyfall 250kg/ha going in today. 13/3/24

 

[Woody j]

View attachment 1169598
Skyfall 250kg/ha going in today. 13/3/24

That field looks very dry, you wouldn’t be drilling here today or next week either!!

 

[Devil's advocate]

Disagree DA. The Science is sound and there is detailed fundamental research. But what you all are asking is for advice (with no come back!) for a specific variety, in your location with the weather to come that may be average or vary from the average. Goodness that is an ask DA, to be frank! As it is all varieties are placed in breeders trials to allow them to give a broad categorization. And please remember there is a clue in the title 'WINTER' Wheat. The assumption is it will be sown in Autumn not pushed into Spring, for which there are specific varieties bred with no vernalisation requirement, so this conversation is not necessary. Yes, I appreciate the commercial aspects this Spring but the fundamentals still apply. Cheers. Just because folk cannot find the answer they want to find please do not shoot the messenger!

Sorry Hindsight, just opinion. I've previous experience winter barley in my case & it has been good on my site but I would not go past the 1st of March with winter cereals.

Certainly seen it with perenial ryegrass will not produce a seed head if sown late April,

Vernalisation in caulie production is The Holy Grail, two very similar seasons can produce very different results because of slightly different night time temps.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Remember once been in Sheffield wholesale market, as a buyer/supplier I used to aim to be there 3.30 to 4.00 am, lots of big buyers at that time & lots of banter.

It was late October & there was a shortage of caulie it was a very cold morning.

The salad buyers shouted to me "This will bring the caulie on".
I replied "yes it will vernalise the late Autumn varieties" not meaning to be cocky or anything.
The overall floor manager heard this and said "ssssshhh everyone DA understands this, what's that word DA & what does it mean & can we charge extra if that word has happened"
So as quietly as possible I explained the concept.
The floor manager then shouted at the top of his voice, "DA is a grower & he says our caulies are VERNALISED so the best caulies come from here" He kept repeating Vernalised, Vernalisation, I'm told he was still talking about it 5 hours later.

 

[Midnight plough boy]

Drilled Skyfall in 2020 on 24th March. 50 kg of Gravity in the bottom of the drill before the seed went in. Where the bit of Geavity was drilled, not a single head, 60% of the Skyfall went to head, yielded about 4t/ha. Wouldn’t bother drilling it now if I were you.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Drilled Skyfall in 2020 on 24th March. 50 kg of Gravity in the bottom of the drill before the seed went in. Where the bit of Geavity was drilled, not a single head, 60% of the Skyfall went to head, yielded about 4t/ha. Wouldn’t bother drilling it now if I were you.

What was the straw like, where there was not a seed head?

 

[Devil's advocate]

Real random question if we drilled winter wheat now but kept it well grazed off with sheep till Xmas, what would happen next year.