Slurry Tank Permitted Development and Bank Lending Northern Ireland

[MickyMook]

Folks I'm hoping to convert to dairy from sucklers.
In order to achieve this I'll have to borrow money, and in order to get the money off a bank it'll need to be above board.
I know that getting full planning for slurry stores at the moment is a non-starter, but I'm wondering if anyone in Northern Ireland has any experience of getting money lent on the basis of permitted development?

My plan would be to build a slatted tank out the front of an existing concrete floored shed. I would then scrape the slurry to the tank and leave plenty of room for a shed extension with more cubicles once I get up and running.

I believe - and I may be wrong - that if it's under 500m2 this would have fallen under permitted dev in the past - does it still?

If it is permitted development will a bank lend money for it without the full whack permission?

I've significantly invested in the yard over the last several years without having to look for a loan as such, but I've exhausted my reserves and now I think it's time for a step-change to really bring this farm into the 21st century.

Thanks for reading

 

[farmerian]

Nearly sure permitted development does not cover livestock housing or tanks because of the ammonia regulations.

 

[MickyMook]

Nearly sure permitted development does not cover livestock housing or tanks because of the ammonia regulations.

now that you mention it, I think you're right. So at the moment is it pretty much impossible to borrow money for the purposes of building livestock housing? I've heard planning is absolutely impossible to get

 

[TomB]

Don’t know about NI but in England you can do slurry stores/livestock sheds on permitted development if more than 400m from a non farm house. And this seems to get round the ammonia rules.

 

[shumungus]

Ring the UFU and ask to speak to a technical officer, they will have the answers that's what your membership money pays for.

 

[yin ewe]

Have you tried a finance company? We built a manure store for our hen house a couple of years ago finance company didn't need planning permission whereas the bank did, was under £25k though any higher and they wanted to see accounts etc.

 

[zyklon]

Slatted tanks are a no go now in NI. You will never get planning and the banks will never lend you money. It’s a complete mess and a way to stop a farmer from expanding. The big men have their sheds built but the smaller man will never get to move up the ladder.

Only hope is to do a solid floor shed with a slurry channel out to a reception tank beside an above ground slurry store roofed and pump it into the store via tractor and pump or an electric pump. Solid floors are just crap compared to slatted tanks but that’s the way it is now. Some men are currently still doing them without planning but its risky.

 

[e3120]

Slatted tanks are a no go now in NI. You will never get planning and the banks will never lend you money. It’s a complete mess and a way to stop a farmer from expanding. The big men have their sheds built but the smaller man will never get to move up the ladder.

Only hope is to do a solid floor shed with a slurry channel out to a reception tank beside an above ground slurry store roofed and pump it into the store via tractor and pump or an electric pump. Solid floors are just crap compared to slatted tanks but that’s the way it is now. Some men are currently still doing them without planning but its risky.

What's the planning reason for refusal?

 

[yin ewe]

What's the planning reason for refusal?

Ammonia levels in the atmosphere and pollution levels in lough Neagh.
Some are just going ahead and doing it without planning but if you need a bank loan they won't give you the money unless planning is in place.

 

[dave6470]

Ammonia levels in the atmosphere and pollution levels in lough Neagh.
Some are just going ahead and doing it without planning but if you need a bank loan they won't give you the money unless planning is in place.

I but only a small portion of Ni Land actually drains into the lough

 

[yin ewe]

I but only a small portion of Ni Land actually drains into the lough

Probably well over a 1/3 going by this map? Would be mostly fairly intensively farmed area too?

 

[yoki]

Probably well over a 1/3 going by this map? Would be mostly fairly intensively farmed area too?

From what I know about the Maine, Moyola, and Sixmilewater, that seems pretty accurate.

So I'd assume the rest of it is too.

 

[MickyMook]

Slatted tanks are a no go now in NI. You will never get planning and the banks will never lend you money. It’s a complete mess and a way to stop a farmer from expanding. The big men have their sheds built but the smaller man will never get to move up the ladder.

Only hope is to do a solid floor shed with a slurry channel out to a reception tank beside an above ground slurry store roofed and pump it into the store via tractor and pump or an electric pump. Solid floors are just crap compared to slatted tanks but that’s the way it is now. Some men are currently still doing them without planning but its risky.

Are over ground stores easier to get planning for? The thing is that I have a pretty good solid floored shed that I want to convert to cubicles. The idea was to put a slatted tank out the front to scrape into and eventually extend the shed out over it with more cubicles. An overground store would do the job.

 

[MickyMook]

I have existing slatted sheds that could theoretically be converted, but they'll be needed to finish beef and rear heifers. We're in a TB area so I can't reliably sell calves, and I don't know that I'd want to dive straight into the kind of cow numbers required to justify doing that anyway.

 

[zyklon]

Are over ground stores easier to get planning for? The thing is that I have a pretty good solid floored shed that I want to convert to cubicles. The idea was to put a slatted tank out the front to scrape into and eventually extend the shed out over it with more cubicles. An overground store would do the job.

Planning for above ground storage should be easily got as it will be roofed which ticks all the ammonia catching boxes. Slatted tanks fail as ammonia escapes all the time as it’s open. You can also get a lagoon under planning if I am correct but it will require a floating cover but I hate the sight of them. Basically a stupid underground slurry tank without slats. A slurry tower is the easiest to install. Just a shame it takes up a site you could have used for something else.

There are only two locations in the whole of NI that falls outside the ammonia zone.

 

[MickyMook]

Planning for above ground storage should be easily got as it will be roofed which ticks all the ammonia catching boxes. Slatted tanks fail as ammonia escapes all the time as it’s open. You can also get a lagoon under planning if I am correct but it will require a floating cover but I hate the sight of them. Basically a stupid underground slurry tank without slats. A slurry tower is the easiest to install. Just a shame it takes up a site you could have used for something else.

There are only two locations in the whole of NI that falls outside the ammonia zone.

Thank you, I didn’t realise that overground were considered for planning at the moment. I once saw a map that seemed to place my farm outside of the nvz, so I’ll investigate that further to see if that’s a line worth pursuing. Certainly a lagoon should be cheaper to install, and given that the proposed cubicle house is elevated about 6’ from the fields below, it would be easy to achieve. I’ve never liked them from a safety viewpoint. I know they have to be fenced, but at some point they need mixed and drawn out of..

 

[yin ewe]

Thank you, I didn’t realise that overground were considered for planning at the moment. I actually believe that I fall outside of the ammonia zone - but I’ll double check with farmers union as I don’t even want to speak to planning until all of my ducks are in a row.

I think an ammonia survey is required even if you are outside a zone and you have to prove that you have land available for nitrates.
Another thing is that you don't want to be seen to be increasing stock numbers so you are wanting more storage for environmental reasons or to make better use of the nutrients.
Above ground store would be your simplest and cheapest route I'd think but more moving slurry about.

 

[MickyMook]

I think an ammonia survey is required even if you are outside a zone and you have to prove that you have land available for nitrates.
Another thing is that you don't want to be seen to be increasing stock numbers so you are wanting more storage for environmental reasons or to make better use of the nutrients.
Above ground store would be your simplest and cheapest route I'd think but more moving slurry about.

Thankfully I can honestly tell them that I’ll be reducing numbers - at least in the first instant. The cheapest and most effective plans that I have for conversion will see me milking a maximum of 50 cows in the initial plans. I currently calf down over 100 sucklers if you include the heifers. I’ll probably hold onto some sucklers initially and gradually expand the dairying. So really from an environmental viewpoint I’d like to think that I have a strong argument to make. It’s just a profitability and modernisation question for me.

 

[MickyMook]

Just offering an update. I’ve spoken to the UFU and it appears to be a hard no on just about everything livestock housing related with the planners at the moment. Even like for like replacement. I’m going back to the drawing board

 

[dave6470]

could you not put up a grain store with a reseption pit for the dryer