Spraying grass field advice

[butlerx09]

Good morning we have a grass field which has multiple patches of thistle and nettles which we try and spot spray every year but always come back :/ so want to spray the entire field what would anyone recommend to spray it with? And can we do it this year or does it need to wait till spring now? As we normally put ewes and lambs on it in the spring so looking for some advice thank you

 

[ollie989898]

Good morning we have a grass field which has multiple patches of thistle and nettles which we try and spot spray every year but always come back :/ so want to spray the entire field what would anyone recommend to spray it with? And can we do it this year or does it need to wait till spring now? As we normally put ewes and lambs on it in the spring so looking for some advice thank you

Too late now for perennial weeds. All the products you will be wanting to use are neither dirt cheap nor work when it is barely 4 degrees at night.

You will be far better served doing them in the spring. You might get good efficacy now but I would not count upon it Besides which, anything containing clopryalid will have a date cut off. Tiny weeds from seed in a new ley you can control fine, but nettles and thistles, which have a root stock. I don't think you will be impressed with the efficacy personally.

 

[milkloss]

What do you spot spray with?

 

[butlerx09]

normally with grazon or thistlex i think but didnt know whats the best and is there anything that will kill them for good or will they just come back every year

 

[milkloss]

For a grazing field then forefront has to be the best you can get, only in the spring though. The thing I find with spraying too early is that some of the weeds have cover or haven't germinated and show their heads in the autumn. Creeping thistle can do this quite well.

I would be inclined to top the field when thy get some legs and spray the second growth, this way both old and young weeds are at similar growth stages. Timing v. Important.

It won't happen in one year despite what people might tell you. Thistlex doesn't do nettles well although it gives them a headache the same as grazon. What you really need is a product with fluroxypyr in it but you won't find many,if any, certified for knapsack use (hard on the eyeballs I gather).

Get it right, growth stage, use forefront (deep pocket required) and you'll make a fair hole in them.

 

[limestone brash]

2.5L mecoprop plus clopylarid 400 0.5L applied on a day like today
(15deg) will kill all the thistles and 95% of all the other BLW

 

[ollie989898]

For a grazing field then forefront has to be the best you can get, only in the spring though. The thing I find with spraying too early is that some of the weeds have cover or haven't germinated and show their heads in the autumn. Creeping thistle can do this quite well.

I would be inclined to top the field when thy get some legs and spray the second growth, this way both old and young weeds are at similar growth stages. Timing v. Important.

It won't happen in one year despite what people might tell you. Thistlex doesn't do nettles well although it gives them a headache the same as grazon. What you really need is a product with fluroxypyr in it but you won't find many,if any, certified for knapsack use (hard on the eyeballs I gather).

Get it right, growth stage, use forefront (deep pocket required) and you'll make a fair hole in them.

If you have nettles and thistles, TBH it's probably a forefront job as you suggest. It is big money and wants to be done when it is warm- best to wait until the nettles are 12 inches tall and the creepers all show themselves (some don't seem to want to appear until May or so.

I have sprayed all kinds of grassland with all kinds of stuff, and had plenty of indifferent results. It might be 15 degrees during the day but at night it is pretty cool. The number one reason for dubious effectiveness I have found is people being too eager to spray when conditions are too cool.

The trouble with grassland weeds is that it is not like those found in arable farming. We are talking about big, reproductive and mature weeds with often many years growth behind them, and a huge root structure. This is vastly different to trying to kill a weed from seed in a crop.

As you have pointed out not many chemicals are approved for knapsack use for whatever reason.

 

[ollie989898]

2.5L mecoprop plus clopylarid 400 0.5L applied on a day like today
(15deg) will kill all the thistles and 95% of all the other BLW

That would be a very good mix but it is currently not legal to use mecoprop-p on grassland intended for grazing or forage.

 

[butlerx09]

Yeh the field is fairly big so was planning on using a tractor and spraying off the whole field to try and keep the nettles and thistles down

 

[limestone brash]

been using mecoprop on grassland for years (and dad before me)
When did this become 'illegal'

 

[cotswoldcs]

I sprayed nettles and creeping thistles with Grazon Pro a week or10 days ago and have been very impressed with kill for this time of year. Is it too late to spray now - weather is mild and no frosts. Waste of time or crack on? They look so unsightly and spring always brings too much work all of a sudden.

 

[neilo]

If you have nettles and thistles, TBH it's probably a forefront job as you suggest. It is big money and wants to be done when it is warm- best to wait until the nettles are 12 inches tall and the creepers all show themselves (some don't seem to want to appear until May or so.

I have sprayed all kinds of grassland with all kinds of stuff, and had plenty of indifferent results. It might be 15 degrees during the day but at night it is pretty cool. The number one reason for dubious effectiveness I have found is people being too eager to spray when conditions are too cool.

The trouble with grassland weeds is that it is not like those found in arable farming. We are talking about big, reproductive and mature weeds with often many years growth behind them, and a huge root structure. This is vastly different to trying to kill a weed from seed in a crop.

As you have pointed out not many chemicals are approved for knapsack use for whatever reason.

I took to a farm absolutely covered in the above. Thistlex at full rate on most (170 ac) of the pp in year one, followed by the same again on the worst 100 ac of it in year 2. Down to just spot spraying odd ones from year 3 onward.

Forefront is great stuff, but way OTT for just nettles & thistles IMO.

 

[ollie989898]

I took to a farm absolutely covered in the above. Thistlex at full rate on most (170 ac) of the pp in year one, followed by the same again on the worst 100 ac of it in year 2. Down to just spot spraying odd ones from year 3 onward.

Forefront is great stuff, but way OTT for just nettles & thistles IMO.

It very much depends on the client's requirements and how much of a shambles you are presented with to be honest, Neil. I have tended to avoid using Forefront in the main because it is expensive, has huge restrictions on it's use, and more to the point is a bit like using a sledgehammer.

I have used thistleX plenty enough in the past, it is pretty good if you are mindful of how best to get the use from it but it is not a cure all, not in the same way as forefront can be at any rate.

 

[ollie989898]

been using mecoprop on grassland for years (and dad before me)
When did this become 'illegal'

About 3 years ago I would reckon.

 

[Sprayer 1]

We are finding it a hard to kill docks this year unless we use forefront. The other Dow products don't seem to be finishing the plant off so after a couple of cuts they are coming back. We always apply with 300lt of water through a flat fan nozzle but wondered if an angled nozzle would give better results at 200 lts. Forefront is expensive, but not as expensive as doing it with other products every year.

 

[ollie989898]

We are finding it a hard to kill docks this year unless we use forefront. The other Dow products don't seem to be finishing the plant off so after a couple of cuts they are coming back. We always apply with 300lt of water through a flat fan nozzle but wondered if an angled nozzle would give better results at 200 lts. Forefront is expensive, but not as expensive as doing it with other products every year.

Which other Dow products have you been using, and at what growth stage/timing?

The trick is not to hit them unless their is sufficient foliage and when the weather is warm. I would rate Doxstar as being more effective in marginal conditions than the alternatives but even that is not immune from failure

Are the docks that are coming back from the original parent rootstocks, have they actually been hit, or are they from seedling growth?

If you wish I can advise you in a more detailed PM.

 

[Sprayer 1]

We try and get them about three weeks after 1st cut when they are flat on the ground and the size of a dinner plate.We have been using doxstar pro. I think they are regrowth from the original root because if you dig the tap root up, you can usually find a spur coming off the main root which is not dead. Some of these tap roots can be 2 feet long but Forefront always kills them.

 

[Brisel]

I've always found metsulfuron methyl to be very good at killing docks. Or add straight fluroxypyr to the brew of Doxstar/Thistlex/whatever

 

[ollie989898]

I've always found metsulfuron methyl to be very good at killing docks. Or add straight fluroxypyr to the brew of Doxstar/Thistlex/whatever

Cimarron will be leaving the party next year I believe.

 

[Brisel]

That's a shame. As far as I'm aware, it was the only metsulfuron approved for grassland "in production," but I could be wrong.