Spring drilling advice

[Mr chips]

Just thinking ahead to our spring drilling into one of our cover crops. We are weighing up whether we would need to top or we could DD straight into then spray off (We have no access to crimp roller). The mix is a 6 way from Kevin @ Countryside Seeds in Cornwall, seems to respond very well to our land. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Spencer]

Looks good...

 

[SilliamWhale]

What is your spring crop?

 

[DanM]

@Mr chips why not graze the crop off with sheep. Would remove the need to top or requirement for a crimp roller.

 

[parker]

I would graze it with sheep or Cambridge roll on a frost (-4) which works really well

 

[bkg]

@Mr chips why not graze the crop off with sheep. Would remove the need to top or requirement for a crimp roller.

Yep sheep sound good , and will give you something to do in the mornings when the feckers are out ?

 

[tr250]

Very jealous of that cover crop. When do you want a lorry load of sheep?
Joking aside bet there is plenty of people wanting grazing to Finnish lambs as cover crops are sh!t round here

 

[Mr chips]

It will be going in with spring barley. Unfortunately we are in an area with few sheep.

 

[Spud]

Just thinking ahead to our spring drilling into one of our cover crops. We are weighing up whether we would need to top or we could DD straight into then spray off (We have no access to crimp roller). The mix is a 6 way from Kevin @ Countryside Seeds in Cornwall, seems to respond very well to our land. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

That looks excellent! What's in the mix?
Cambridge roll on a good frost and drill straight in would be my approach I think, depends a bit what the drill can cope with.
I'd flail it pre spuds, to keep the om in the bed, rather than under it (or wrapped round everything!)

 

[Mr chips]

That looks excellent! What's in the mix?
Cambridge roll on a good frost and drill straight in would be my approach I think, depends a bit what the drill can cope with.
I'd flail it pre spuds, to keep the om in the bed, rather than under it (or wrapped round everything!)

We are very happy with it.
The mix is:
10% Tabor Egyptian Clover
15% Lunetta Fodder Radish
15% Iris Fodder Radish
5% Camelina
35% Black Oats
20% Spring Vetch.

It will be drilled with a 750A.

 

[Spud]

We are very happy with it.
The mix is:
10% Tabor Egyptian Clover
15% Lunetta Fodder Radish
15% Iris Fodder Radish
5% Camelina
35% Black Oats
20% Spring Vetch.

It will be drilled with a 750A.

I have to admit my ignorance - what is Camelina? Sounds like something to roll up and light!
Have any of the radish any nematode reducing properties? That's my current direction with covers.
Isothysyinate mustard has too much against it to be practical I think.

 

[Brisel]

Camelina is a brassica with a very light oil. A local niche crop merchant tried to get growers of it for an aviation grade biofuel but the economics just never existed and if you thought biofuels concerned petroleum and diesel engineers, think about what aerospace engineers and safety gurus thought about the risks.

Nice cover crop @Mr chips

Why top it? You need slow breakdown of that crop to prevent N lockup. That will go through the drill ok so save yourself the extra pass. I've never tried spraying after flattening the cover with the drill, having never had a drill,that would do it. I'd spray a few days pre drilling, and possibly again if I were worried about grassweeds previously shaded pre emergence. Others with more experience of this system will have better advice, no doubt.

 

[kiwi]

I will be most interested to how you get on with the Spring barley. I have done a similar thing here in N.Z and grazed it with lambs over the end of winter. The covercrop I had looked amazing like you're with vetch, crimson clover volunteer wheat and intially Buck wheat until that was frosted. It was Spring drilled in barley and is now my worst crop. I am suspecting a cold spring and maybe a glyphosate issue but not 100 percent sure(waiting on residue test results). If I have the courage to do it again I would either wait 6 weeks until after terminating and or add micronutrient and biology in with the seed. Read the two Simons theory post , they had similar issues.

 

[Mr chips]

Camelina is a brassica with a very light oil. A local niche crop merchant tried to get growers of it for an aviation grade biofuel but the economics just never existed and if you thought biofuels concerned petroleum and diesel engineers, think about what aerospace engineers and safety gurus thought about the risks.

Nice cover crop @Mr chips

Why top it? You need slow breakdown of that crop to prevent N lockup. That will go through the drill ok so save yourself the extra pass. I've never tried spraying after flattening the cover with the drill, having never had a drill,that would do it. I'd spray a few days pre drilling, and possibly again if I were worried about grassweeds previously shaded pre emergence. Others with more experience of this system will have better advice, no doubt.

Very interesting regarding the N lockup I’ve never seen about that before.

It would be a pass with a sprayer not a drill attachment, we thought about adding glyphosate to our pre-em however our new agronomist is an advocate for no pre-em in SB.

Thanks for the reply, very interesting.

 

[Brisel]

Drill into heavy straw residues and the soil bacteria will use available N to break down the material. You'll get it back later but that's no good for an emerging crop that needs N to get up & away quickly. I'd say it was best to put N down the spout and try to leave as much of the cover crop not touching the soil as possible. Hard for wheelings etc but it would be best to see it break down standing upright. Your well fed worms will sort the rest out for you.

Even RB209 acknowledges that high carbon residues need extra N. You can apply extra N after paper crumble applications and after carrots where there has been straw put down over winter. I'd love to sow winter wheat into chopped oat straw but daren't as there is no RB209 recommendation for autumn N. I plan to leave as long a stubble as possible to slow the breakdown but have to sell the straw at the moment as I haven't got a disc drill that will work in long stubble.

 

[Mr chips]

I will be most interested to how you get on with the Spring barley. I have done a similar thing here in N.Z and grazed it with lambs over the end of winter. The covercrop I had looked amazing like you're with vetch, crimson clover volunteer wheat and intially Buck wheat until that was frosted. It was Spring drilled in barley and is now my worst crop. I am suspecting a cold spring and maybe a glyphosate issue but not 100 percent sure(waiting on residue test results). If I have the courage to do it again I would either wait 6 weeks until after terminating and or add micronutrient and biology in with the seed. Read the two Simons theory post , they had similar issues.

We would be very interested to hear your results when you get them if you’d be good enough to keep us informed. Thanks

 

[Mr chips]

Drill into heavy straw residues and the soil bacteria will use available N to break down the material. You'll get it back later but that's no good for an emerging crop that needs N to get up & away quickly. I'd say it was best to put N down the spout and try to leave as much of the cover crop not touching the soil as possible. Hard for wheelings etc but it would be best to see it break down standing upright. Your well fed worms will sort the rest out for you.

Even RB209 acknowledges that high carbon residues need extra N. You can apply extra N after paper crumble applications and after carrots where there has been straw put down over winter. I'd love to sow winter wheat into chopped oat straw but daren't as there is no RB209 recommendation for autumn N. I plan to leave as long a stubble as possible to slow the breakdown but have to sell the straw at the moment as I haven't got a disc drill that will work in long stubble.

This is our first venture into direct drilling as we’ve never considered it before so thanks for the info it’s very interesting.

We will be getting a neighbour with a new 750A to drill it but they don’t have the option of N down the spout. Do you think applying liquid N would work as well shortly post drilling? Thanks

 

[chaffcutter]

That looks brilliant but it must be a very expensive seed mixture?

 

[Brisel]

This is our first venture into direct drilling as we’ve never considered it before so thanks for the info it’s very interesting.

We will be getting a neighbour with a new 750A to drill it but they don’t have the option of N down the spout. Do you think applying liquid N would work as well shortly post drilling? Thanks

I apply half my N as liquid a day or two ahead of the drill as long as there's no heavy rain forecast so it is soaked into the soil. I grow malting barley so all the N is on before 2 leaves. If it were feed I'd do enough to get the plant away then the rest at early tillering. My current drill can't do fertiliser and seed & with a 36m sprayer can get a lot done quickly so it's not really an issue. If it were dry and I had the ability to, I'd get some N down the spout. I'm hoping Santa Claus will allow me an Avatar with twin hoppers so I can do this in future

 

[martian]

Why top it? You need slow breakdown of that crop to prevent N lockup. That will go through the drill ok so save yourself the extra pass. I've never tried spraying after flattening the cover with the drill, having never had a drill,that would do it. I'd spray a few days pre drilling, and possibly again if I were worried about grassweeds previously shaded pre emergence. Others with more experience of this system will have better advice, no doubt.

We've got on very well with leaving the cover until the last possible minute, ideally spraying post-drilling. This ensures the plants are extracting water for as long as possible (it's normally the ground being too wet that stops us getting going in the spring) and the biomass supports the tractor and drill nicely, the living roots are firing energy into the soil until the last...

If you spray off a few days before seeding, you risk a period of miserable mizzly spring weather that stops you drilling and the cover turns into a slimy mulch which traps the water in the surface of the soil and you might as well go away until May.

When I say that we've got on well doing this, I mean we've got drilled up ok and the seed's come through all lovely. After that it's been downhill rather, we've had the droughts of March, that Chaucer went on about, going on into May...that's our excuse. I merely say our spring crops haven't been that sensational (but I was pleased to hear our local Monitor Farmers saying theirs were pants as well).

I don't think it's the dastardly Two Simons at work, because the seeds come through so well. Whether the glyphosate that the covers take down into their roots has some stifling effect underground, I don't know...