Stabilised mules ?

[John Chance]

Quite like mules. Good maternal sheep. Like biosecurity, closing the flock and making my own genetic progress more. Has anyone tried to stabilise mules and what happened ? Not asking about pros and cons and which maternal breeds would be better or about bonnie heeds or anything like that; just whether anyone has done it. TIA.

 

[Ysgythan]

Look up Milfords in Ireland.

 

[Ysgythan]

https://www.facebook.com/100001215640749/posts/2479768818740282

 

[Nithsdale]

It's interesting that any cross ewe which has a BFL as a parent is called a Mule. An equine Mule is a non breeder/infertile IIRC? so I do wonder if, in sheep, the term was coined because you couldn't breed pure with them...

When I was young I had a Mule tup lamb serve some Mules... the resulting lambs varied markedly from Blackie looking to Mule (which I kept the females to go into the Mike flock) but the next generation (Texel tups) again didn't throw to any conformity.

It was all just an accident but it wasn't a good experience

 

[MRT]

How much performance would be lost without hybrid vigour? Would you be spending a lot of time and effort reinventing the wheel when you could just buy another maternal breed?

 

[ISCO]

When I was at school biology teacher who was also ex farmer said mule x mule would result in progeny being 50%mule and 25% swale and Leicester. Dont know if this works in practice.
I cannot understand why mules could not be bred 'pure' as Innovis seem to manage it with their crosses.

 

[glensman]

When I was at school biology teacher who was also ex farmer said mule x mule would result in progeny being 50%mule and 25% swale and Leicester. Dont know if this works in practice.
I cannot understand why mules could not be bred 'pure' as Innovis seem to manage it with their crosses.

I'm guessing it's because there's such a genetic difference between a BFL and a blackie in appearance, wool, colouring etc. I'm guessing there might be more success trying to stabilise a cheviot/mule than the blackie cross.

 

[John Chance]

All F1s throw one way or another. They would take a few generations to stabilise. And, yes hybrid vigour would decline.

 

[Paul E]

Innovis seem to manage it with their crosses.

Yeah, but I bet they have a cull rate amongst those which throw back too extreme. (BFL/ Swale) but then who TF would want a swale anyway??

 

[Agrivator]

Simple genetics show that repeated crossings of AB x AB is unlikely to result in a fixed and acceptable breed.

But you can start with any cross or purebred, and by constantly crossing with a different pure breed, you can within a few generations grade them up. It's been done many times with Blackfaces being upgraded to Cheviots.

 

[neilo]

When I was at school biology teacher who was also ex farmer said mule x mule would result in progeny being 50%mule and 25% swale and Leicester. Dont know if this works in practice.
I cannot understand why mules could not be bred 'pure' as Innovis seem to manage it with their crosses.

Well, they tell you they do.
I’ve spoken to plenty of Aberfield users who say they get more than enough of the next cross that throw back to the BFL side of the things.

 

[Bury the Trash]

https://www.facebook.com/100001215640749/posts/2479768818740282

nice ears .

 

[Nithsdale]

Well, they tell you they do.
I’ve spoken to plenty of Aberfield users who say they get more than enough of the next cross that throw back to the BFL side of the things.

That's why they 'brought out' the Aberfield SR - SR stands for self-replacing... they crossed the Aberfield with a Lleyn to stabilise it

 

[Top Tip.]

That's why they 'brought out' the Aberfield SR - SR stands for self-replacing... they crossed the Aberfield with a Lleyn to stabilise it

You are joking ? I hope.

 

[egbert]

All F1s throw one way or another. They would take a few generations to stabilise. And, yes hybrid vigour would decline.

exactly this

 

[egbert]

Quite like mules. Good maternal sheep. Like biosecurity, closing the flock and making my own genetic progress more. Has anyone tried to stabilise mules and what happened ? Not asking about pros and cons and which maternal breeds would be better or about bonnie heeds or anything like that; just whether anyone has done it. TIA.

if bio-security is an issue can you find a breeder, buy direct, and keep the chain as short as possible?

 

[Nithsdale]

You are joking ? I hope.

Innovis Breeding Sheep :: Aberfield SR

Aberfield SR

www.innovis.org.uk

I never joke

 

[M-J-G]

When I was at school biology teacher who was also ex farmer said mule x mule would result in progeny being 50%mule and 25% swale and Leicester. Dont know if this works in practice.
I cannot understand why mules could not be bred 'pure' as Innovis seem to manage it with their crosses.

A mate of mine has crossed BFL and Texel for a while now, he also runs pure Texels, his 3/4 and crisscrossed lambs are more consistent than his pures.

 

[M-J-G]

You'll stabilise anything eventually, a Norfolk Horn and a Southdown are pretty different in type yet the Suffolk is pretty consistent.

I'm not sure you'll do it as quick as innovis or the Stabiliser cattle company say you can though.

 

[neilo]

You'll stabilise anything eventually, a Norfolk Horn and a Southdown are pretty different in type yet the Suffolk is pretty consistent.

I'm not sure you'll do it as quick as innovis or the Stabiliser cattle company say you can though.

^this. It takes time, particularly where the parent breeds are dramatically different in type like the BFL and most of the ewes they are used on (whether that’s a Texel or a hill breed)..

Of course, to promote something that wasn’t stabilised would be a hard sell, even for the strongest of marketing machines.