Staff shortage.

[Turra farmer]

What I am referring to is that:

A: you are competing against industries who pay better rates for lesser work.

&

B: you will not get the benefit experienced takers to work 60 hrs for £700 a week, when they can sit on their lazy arses and claim similar money for doing nothing!

Also, the majority of brickies earn nowhere near £48k annually or £1000 a week (unless of course you are referring to the ones who pay no tax and do cash in hand jobs). Don't simply believe everything what you are told, some jobs pay more some less, but if you average the rate you will find their average rate is far lower.

Well said , I employ Brickes and in a good week they maybe gross 1000 , but an average week is maybe 700 , they work outside in rain or snow , lift heavy granite lintels and sills ,
They don't sit on a tractor which has a seat comfy as a sofa , climate controlled and good sound system , and now even an automatic steering system , the slurry tanker loads itself , there is no other industry apart from construction where you have to heavy lift and work in sometimes poor conditions , and maybe commute an hour to work ,

Farm work is either in your blood or it isn't ,

 

[Ukjay]

For working 10 hours a day, 6 days a week?
We're not in the 19th century anymore, people need a life.
Mechanisation and frequent improvements in machinery efficiency were meant to reduce the number of hours it takes to do a certain job, and reduce fatigue, so why do I still know lads who do well over 100 hours a week over summer and get moaned at by the gaffer when they want a Sunday off?
Agriculture is still years behind the rest of Europe in how it treats its workers, do you think workers in Scandinavia or France or Germany do the hours our lads do?

Unfortunately you are not completely correct. I am fortunate to work with people from all over this fine planet, and I can tell you for certainty that they work just as, if not harder than the UK.

 

[principal skinner]

Surely people aren't working 14hrs a day 7 days a week all harvest?!
If so there is some serious bad planning going on.

For a couple of weeks in a catchy year I can understand it - but not all harvest every year.

Having grown up and worked on large arable farms I would pretty much say that it is the norm. 14/15 hr days 7 days a week until harvest/drilling is done. I just get my head down and crack on, time to earn good money so I can take it easy in the winter[emoji106]

 

[glasshouse]

I did the 7 day a week 12hr day for about 25 yrs, and that was from april to early nov, sometimes later. I ran the dryer from 8am to midnight from mid aug to mid oct
Gaps in work were spent fencing, draining, building sheds, concreting etc
Never had a summer holiday , and still havent.
About ten yrs ago children changed that and we stopped doing sundays.
Looking back it was all for nothing, landlord hoofed us out without a backward glance

 

[Ukjay]

I did the 7 day a week 12hr day for about 25 yrs, and that was from april to early nov, sometimes later. I ran the dryer from 8am to midnight from mid aug to mid oct
Gaps in work were spent fencing, draining, building sheds, concreting etc
Never had a summer holiday , and still havent.
About ten yrs ago children changed that and we stopped doing sundays.
Looking back it was all for nothing, landlord hoofed us out without a backward glance

I assume your landlord was the land / property owner, your employer?

 

[betweenthelines]

Well I must attract them , I've over 30 guys , and been a total struggle to get a " decent " workforce , but every Monday I will have between 1 and 4 missing

Absolutely its up to the employee how he spends his time off, no issue there. But its his responsibility to turn up on time in a fit state for work on a Monday morning, the lad I described was very very lucky I didnt sack him on the spot! (I would of done if we hadnt been in the thick of planting spuds)
Theres also such a thing as taking the michael. He let his colleagues down just as badly as he did me.

In the peak times the lads on the farm will work 7-9 normally in the cereal harvest, and 6am - 8pm during taty planting and lifting. (usually 4-5 week season in each instance) but 7-4 between times, bit more if the irrigators are full bore. I drive the sprayer, so tend to be out with it in the evenings a lot, but thats my choice.
We also have a haulage business, and the drivers work 55-60hrs a week, pretty much every week, the total hours across the year will be a bit higher on the trucks, but their slack weeks are few and far between.

I'll do my best to accomodate real life as much as I can, but I need a bit of notice in order to keep the wheels turning that pay their wages! A man that gives me say a weeks notice of the need for a day off will never get a refusal, ever, the man who asks me on a busy morning if he can finish at dinnertime will be disappointed.

Emergencies happen though, and thats different. Its simple give and take, thats all.

If you've got lorry drivers doing 50+ hours every week, you're breaking the law unless you are taking the p**s with POA rules.

 

[glasshouse]

I assume your landlord was the land / property owner, your employer?

I assume your landlord was the land / property owner, your employer?

no

 

[Spud]

If you've got lorry drivers doing 50+ hours every week, you're breaking the law unless you are taking the p**s with POA rules.

No I'm not breaking the law. They have appropriate breaks and never go over their driving time, but get paid if theyre having there dinner, waiting in a queue or washing the truck off when they get back on a night. Most of them work 5days a week plus every third Saturday, so plenty of 48hrs off.

 

[Spud]

I did the 7 day a week 12hr day for about 25 yrs, and that was from april to early nov, sometimes later. I ran the dryer from 8am to midnight from mid aug to mid oct
Gaps in work were spent fencing, draining, building sheds, concreting etc
Never had a summer holiday , and still havent.
About ten yrs ago children changed that and we stopped doing sundays.
Looking back it was all for nothing, landlord hoofed us out without a backward glance

Sounds like you needed a bigger dryer!

 

[unlacedgecko]

No I'm not breaking the law. They have appropriate breaks and never go over their driving time, but get paid if theyre having there dinner, waiting in a queue or washing the truck off when they get back on a night. Most of them work 5days a week plus every third Saturday, so plenty of 48hrs off.

What about their 48hr week rolling average? Or are you paying their breaks as well?

 

[unlacedgecko]

The main loss of farm workers IME seems to be to the construction industry & lorry driving. The HGV work means even longer hours than farming

Class 1 licence has been totally invaluable to me.

I despise driving a truck, but know what hourly rate it can bring. Therefore I have to ensure that any work I do earns more than the comparable hourly rate.

It's stopped me doing poorly paid jobs 'for the love'. Which is good, as 'love' doesn't pay mortgages or put food on the table.

 

[Ali_Maxxum]

I've only read this from page 17/18 so apologies for maybe not being quite on track but I think I've got the idea and here's just my view and observations on things around these parts....

It's very difficult to summarise this topic in one post without turning it into a book...

There's still a seriously alarming amount of 'self employed' people working mega hours for £7-10/hr full time for big farmers/contractors. You say to them, you should be employed and on the books, they agree but don't do anything about it?! A lot of it is just the big shiny kit and twin whips and all the other b.s. They're using their own vehicles, fuel, providing their own kit and using their own phones for the benefit of their employer.

Work times are always going to be a difficult one, the push in summer is really out of even the best employers hands, especially when you're against the weather, what are you supposed to do? You're usually part of a team so the saying 'Team work makes the dream work' really comes into it's own.

I have no problem working 100hr+ weeks when we need to but I wont be doing it all the time, certainly not this time of year, if I need to carry on for another hour to finish a job with the lights on rather than go back in the morning I will, but doing it for the sake of it is a bit silly, but when someone just loves it then who are you to tell them any different? Some work to live and some live to work and you'll probably never change that.

I'm still young at the moment and I absolutely love the job, sometimes I absolutely hate it, but I'd never want to do anything else. I'm certainly not going to get rich doing what I'm doing, but if I can live comfortably and still take a day off as and when I want it then I will be more than happy. I appreciate love for the job wont pay the bills but if you love it enough you're more than likely going to make it work.

Our casual labour is great, and I like to think we treat them pretty well, they keep coming back so can't be bad? They come usually pretty short notice but there will be chips and beer brought to them or someone will do a food run and be brought back to the house when we're done, I think the little things like that count for a lot.

I did see another comment I think about working more efficiently so you don't have to work as much, but I think a lot of it ends up being working more efficiently and then being able to take on more. That's what we've done but its worked in our/customers/employees favour in quite a few ways so I'm not complaining at that either.

Do what you want within reason and the main thing is be happy!

 

[ste]

What about their 48hr week rolling average? Or are you paying their breaks as well?

Doesn't matter what @Spud is paying them for, its whats on their time sheet with regards to rest/poa that matters in keeping under the 48hrs week. He sounds a good employer to me paying from card in to card out, most I've worked for in the past deducted at least 30 mins a day for breaks and one even tried to pay just for the other work and driving hours. Not good when you could have about 4 hrs a day on POA whilst they tipped the container He soon changed that after the first week of trying when all 10 of us put our notice in.

 

[casemx 270]

Class 1 licence has been totally invaluable to me.

I despise driving a truck, but know what hourly rate it can bring. Therefore I have to ensure that any work I do earns more than the comparable hourly rate.

It's stopped me doing poorly paid jobs 'for the love'. Which is good, as 'love' doesn't pay mortgages or put food on the table.

Class 1 licence has been totally invaluable to me.

I despise driving a truck, but know what hourly rate it can bring. Therefore I have to ensure that any work I do earns more than the comparable hourly rate.

It's stopped me doing poorly paid jobs 'for the love'. Which is good, as 'love' doesn't pay mortgages or put food on the table.

In my case I think you're wrong there I ve worked on farms for the last 30 old years its always put bread on the table I own my own house have as many holidays as I want and during some of the early years of being married and having young kids was the only bread winner. Farming was the only thing I ever wanted to do and I could of earned loads more doing other things .

 

[casemx 270]

I've only read this from page 17/18 so apologies for maybe not being quite on track but I think I've got the idea and here's just my view and observations on things around these parts....

It's very difficult to summarise this topic in one post without turning it into a book...

There's still a seriously alarming amount of 'self employed' people working mega hours for £7-10/hr full time for big farmers/contractors. You say to them, you should be employed and on the books, they agree but don't do anything about it?! A lot of it is just the big shiny kit and twin whips and all the other b.s. They're using their own vehicles, fuel, providing their own kit and using their own phones for the benefit of their employer.

Work times are always going to be a difficult one, the push in summer is really out of even the best employers hands, especially when you're against the weather, what are you supposed to do? You're usually part of a team so the saying 'Team work makes the dream work' really comes into it's own.

I have no problem working 100hr+ weeks when we need to but I wont be doing it all the time, certainly not this time of year, if I need to carry on for another hour to finish a job with the lights on rather than go back in the morning I will, but doing it for the sake of it is a bit silly, but when someone just loves it then who are you to tell them any different? Some work to live and some live to work and you'll probably never change that.

I'm still young at the moment and I absolutely love the job, sometimes I absolutely hate it, but I'd never want to do anything else. I'm certainly not going to get rich doing what I'm doing, but if I can live comfortably and still take a day off as and when I want it then I will be more than happy. I appreciate love for the job wont pay the bills but if you love it enough you're more than likely going to make it work.

Our casual labour is great, and I like to think we treat them pretty well, they keep coming back so can't be bad? They come usually pretty short notice but there will be chips and beer brought to them or someone will do a food run and be brought back to the house when we're done, I think the little things like that count for a lot.

I did see another comment I think about working more efficiently so you don't have to work as much, but I think a lot of it ends up being working more efficiently and then being able to take on more. That's what we've done but its worked in our/customers/employees favour in quite a few ways so I'm not complaining at that either.

Do what you want within reason and the main thing is be happy!

I agree from a employees point of view

 

[glasshouse]

Sounds like you needed a bigger dryer!

Yes, a bigger dryer, bigger combine, bigger bank balance, bigger brain.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Yes, a bigger dryer, bigger combine, bigger bank balance, bigger brain.

Bigger boobs!

 

[ollandroverman]

Doesn't matter what @Spud is paying them for, its whats on their time sheet with regards to rest/poa that matters in keeping under the 48hrs week. He sounds a good employer to me paying from card in to card out, most I've worked for in the past deducted at least 30 mins a day for breaks and one even tried to pay just for the other work and driving hours. Not good when you could have about 4 hrs a day on POA whilst they tipped the container He soon changed that after the first week of trying when all 10 of us put our notice in.

When talking about how @Spud runs his operations, (which is nobody's business but his), are you not mixing up 'drivers hours' with 'working time directive'

 

[Banana Bar]

True enough, but I am 53 years old with HGV1 Sprayer operator, passable welder and spanner wielder. There before start time, last one to leave and able assistant to most managers and my rate is £14.00 an hour, My Son who is learning the ropes but still a very good worker is considerably less,

You want a busy job on a Quadtrac for harvest?

 

[ste]

When talking about how @Spud runs his operations, (which is nobody's business but his), are you not mixing up 'drivers hours' with 'working time directive'

Nope seeing as the person I quoted mentioned the 48hrs rolling average so that is the working time directive. |Had it been driving hours that would be 90 per 2 week rolling period. Think your the one getting confused?