Stopping silage grass leys being classed as Permanent

[Chalky]

Question that I am sure has an answer or two..

We grow high intensity grass leys 2/3 year duration to feed a local AD plant from BG land.

Reason:- suits the ground growing grass-heavy vale(that is what it always was)
gets good structure & OM back into it
it is profitable
the longer I leave it, the better the effect on BG weedbank.

I do not want to have to crop it with something so I do not declare it as temporary on the 5th BPS return. I just see it could undo good work that has been done!

With Mr Gove's save the planet rose tinted Ag coming-I do not wish to find land has been reclassified and can NEVER be cropped again.

What can I do?

Could I take an early May first cut & 'drill' mustard as a cover crop which I happily write in the BPS?

If I sprayed off the grass, the mustard will come. How long before I kill that & resow grass?

Or, they make a stupid rule so I will make a stupid solution, do not spray off the ley, cut early May, drill mustard which of course will be completely overtaken by the aftermath & carry on with a slightly larger second cut then third cut- but I have recorded that Mustard was sown by the 15th May. I do not believe I am bound by any rules to eliminate competition to my sown crop? If so there is plenty of illegal WW with BG in!

Any comments/experience will be appreciated.

 

[franklin]

I think you are getting overly concerned about coding it as PP. But if you really dont want to have it, you can always fallow it one year as the fallow code breaks the 5 years of grass. This would require you to follow the rules for fallow period which vary depending on if you elect to use it for greening.

 

[mushnt grummmble]

Just put it down as temp grass

 

[benny6910]

Even if it does get classes as permanent pasture as long as you have records to show it has been sprayed and had fertiliser applied to it, nobody can stop you putting it back into arable rotation.

 

[ollie989898]

Land that you declare as grass will still be classified as PP even if you ploughed it up every year and planted Westerwolds in it.

The definition of permanent pasture used for the purposes of BPS differs from what all of us traditionally view as PP.

Do not worry. Even if your entire farm ended up being classed as permanent grass you are presumably spreading fertiliser and spraying it and mowing it, so in the eyes of the ministry it is not some untouched wildflower meadow on a steep hill that they would never want ploughed up. They cannot stop you from putting this land back into cropping (nor do they want to encourage people to plough up land for sake of falling foul of a stupid rule).

Not even the most tyrannical sandal wearing inspector could possibly claim that grassland being fertilised, mowed regularly for AD use and the like has any real environmental value, it is improved grassland being used to high agricultural potential, so in effect is no different to if you grew wheat on it.

So don't go drilling or spraying it off for the sake of it. You might also consider growing maize or rye. Maize, in particular can be a useful break for you. That or beet. If you get a dry autumn after harvest bang wheat in or wait till spring and put grass in again?

 

[dannewhouse]

I also wouldn't worry about the PP rule I plough a bit of PP out every year but can they prove it wasn't "improved" pasture before which may have been reseeded during its life? I think its a load of crap local dairy farmer has everything on 3 year lays but that's PP?

what about a red clover crop? then back to grass?
I'm doing the same thing to break the BG but mines 2 3yr leys back to back but I don't care about the PP rule thingy

 

[neilo]

Just put it down as temp grass

^this. If it’s a 2-3 yr ley to give a BG break, then back to arable, then it’s just temporary grass. It would have to be down for 5 yrs+ to be labelled as pp, even if that was construed to be a problem.
Temporary grass will also count as one of your 3 crops, in case that was an issue too.

 

[Chalky]

3 year ley, followed by another & potentially another. Harvesting 60+t/ha per year for AD & stopping BG getting a look in. Dont want to have a crop where it will be able to seed ie arable!

 

[dannewhouse]

^this. If it’s a 2-3 yr ley to give a BG break, then back to arable, then it’s just temporary grass. It would have to be down for 5 yrs+ to be labelled as pp, even if that was construed to be a problem.
Temporary grass will also count as one of your 3 crops, in case that was an issue too.

he wants it on grass for over the 5 years without an arable crop. wether its a 7 year ley or 3 2 year leys BPS wont no the difference and will still class it as arable on the 5th/6th?

claim you DD'd clover in 1 year so right it down as clover then the following year TG?

 

[neilo]

he wants it on grass for over the 5 years without an arable crop. wether its a 7 year ley or 3 2 year leys BPS wont no the difference and will still class it as arable on the 5th/6th?

claim you DD'd clover in 1 year so right it down as clover then the following year TG?

My apologies, I read the OP as a grass crop of 2-3 yr duration, not successive 2-3 year leys.

 

[yellow belly]

As stated above pp can be ploughed up with out much problem if it can be proved that it has been cultivated in any way
Cultivation includes any improvement reseeding as well as any application of fertiliser or lime

 

[Hindsight]

Question that I am sure has an answer or two..


I do not want to have to crop it with something so I do not declare it as temporary on the 5th BPS return. I just see it could undo good work that has been done!


Any comments/experience will be appreciated.

Would still be declared as Temporary Grass on 5th BPS return. Would become Permanent Pasture after six years, thus the 6th BPS return.

 

[chipchap]

I have two arable fields, both of which have areas that were arable options in a HLS scheme that ended in October 2016. The same areas were left as fallow for EFA in 2017. (Incidentally they were also used as EFA before our HLS had expired)
Somebody at RPA has decided to allocate these areas their own field numbers and define these areas as Permanent Pastue.
Luckily I noticed what had been done in time to remerge the fields, if they allow me to.
If I am not allowed to remerge these areas I will have to plough them up to reestablish them as arable, in order that we can use them as EFA again.
Completely ridiculous.
Please check your field data to see what they have done to yours!

 

[Hindsight]

I have two arable fields, both of which have areas that were arable options in a HLS scheme that ended in October 2016. The same areas were left as fallow for EFA in 2017. (Incidentally they were also used as EFA before our HLS had expired)
Somebody at RPA has decided to allocate these areas their own field numbers and define these areas as Permanent Pastue.
Luckily I noticed what had been done in time to remerge the fields, if they allow me to.
If I am not allowed to remerge these areas I will have to plough them up to reestablish them as arable, in order that we can use them as EFA again.
Completely ridiculous.
Please check your field data to see what they have done to yours!

I think you will be allowed to remerge the areas into the original parcel but will have to do so using and RLE1. You can change the land use from Permanent Pasture to an Arable code on the 2018 BPS application.

It is only where a piece of land has been changed to a PIF that one will need to submit an RLE1 to change the land use back to eligible land.

The land recognition software throws these wobblies not a person as such. RPA re very aware of these incorrect changes - not that that is any consolation!

Hey ho. As easy as collecting the congestion charge between Camden and Islington.

 

[chipchap]

I think you will be allowed to remerge the areas into the original parcel but will have to do so using and RLE1. You can change the land use from Permanent Pasture to an Arable code on the 2018 BPS application.

It is only where a piece of land has been changed to a PIF that one will need to submit an RLE1 to change the land use back to eligible land.

The land recognition software throws these wobblies not a person as such. RPA re very aware of these incorrect changes - not that that is any consolation!

Hey ho. As easy as collecting the congestion charge between Camden and Islington.

Sorry what's a PIF?

 

[Hindsight]

Sorry what's a PIF?

Permanent Ineligible Feature

 

[Chalky]

Just had a thought, can I just use Ryegrass(Lolium) code AC100? There is no way anyone can say it is not Ryegrass