Suckler Cow Efficiency

[Samcowman]

So this year due to having a new set of weigh scales I have weighed all of our calves at weaning and though I would weigh all of the cows as well and work out the cows efficiency by using the calves 200 day weigh as a % of their weight.
I have broken it down by calf breed, cow breed, cow age and cow weight. So I can see what changes can be made to make everything more efficient.
Is there anyone else doing this?
What results would you expect with regards to weight and age of the cows and breed of calves?
I expected as cows got older their efficiency would drop but rise until 3rd or 4th calver. Also as cows got heavier to get less efficient.

 

[Samcowman]

Bit of background on the herd.
Calves are fleckvieh, blonde and Angus.
Heifers calve at 2 and all calve to Angus.
First fleckvieh heifers weaned calves this autumn

 

[Chae1]

Older cows in our herd are very inefficient. I go through our lowest wean weights and check back dams and most of our worst performing calves are from old cows. We really need to set a age and cull automatically before they start producing poor calves. Taking most of ours out at about ten years old. Culled 73 last year which is about 20% of herd.



Easiest way to improve herd efficiency is to remove the bottom ten per cent.

 

[M-J-G]

The % of cow weight is a measure that should be treated with caution, cow weight can vary massively according to CS. % of heifers in the herd, and their age at first calving is also a variable.

Cow type is a massive influence on efficiency, when I had HolXlim cows I weaned reasonable weights in calves, the cows were about 100kg lighter than the more beef bred cows, so % of cow weight looked ok then, but the Hol x cows needed fed a lot better than pure beef cows despite them being heavier.

The all wonderful and miracle working creep feeder also throws the % of dams weight right out the window.

 

[Raynard]

Yes to your thoughts re age & efficiency.

Done similar and have seen stabiliser cows wean around 5% more - due to cows being lighter than our angus x lim. I would add that stabiliser cows are only 3yrs and heavier cows are 8+yrs.

Background; calves stabiliser, lim & sim. Cows angus x lim, 1st calf at 2. All off grass, calved 12 weeks from 1st March.

Will work to bring age of cow down and reduce cow size by adding stabiliser into dam x.

Organic lowland farm in Dorset. Cows outwintered, calves weaned today and in barn.

 

[Raynard]

Moving forward I have huge hopes in Net feed efficiency

 

[Samcowman]

The % of cow weight is a measure that should be treated with caution, cow weight can vary massively according to CS. % of heifers in the herd, and their age at first calving is also a variable.

Cow type is a massive influence on efficiency, when I had HolXlim cows I weaned reasonable weights in calves, the cows were about 100kg lighter than the more beef bred cows, so % of cow weight looked ok then, but the Hol x cows needed fed a lot better than pure beef cows despite them being heavier.

The all wonderful and miracle working creep feeder also throws the % of dams weight right out the window.

Very aware about CS affecting it. There is one group that is a bit 'strong' being one of the only groups which is properly paddock grazed. Otherwise all cows are fed the same.
As you know cutting out the Holstein influence so that's a work in progress.
Doing cow efficiency whilst also creep feeding would skew the results as the calves from the less milky cows will take creep earlier and take more than the better cows.

 

[Happy]

Older cows in our herd are very inefficient. I go through our lowest wean weights and check back dams and most of our worst performing calves are from old cows. We really need to set a age and cull automatically before they start producing poor calves. Taking most of ours out at about ten years old. Culled 73 last year which is about 20% of herd.



Easiest way to improve herd efficiency is to remove the bottom ten per cent.

Oldest cows here are 12 years old.
Only 2 of them in 100 cow herd with a further 3 that are 11 years old.

Could keep them longer but in addition to lower calf weights always think it better to get them away when they are easier fattened before feet, udder and any other health issues start complicating things.

 

[Jonny B88]

Were anything typically from 35%-45%. One cow weighs 940kgs and weaned 25%. Going to use it to target breeding heifers from good cows going forward. Unfortunately we’re trying to build numbers so cant cull as I would like. 200 day weights between 220kg and 300kgs. Big difference. Stabiliser Angus and lim calves.

 

[Jonny B88]

Bit of background on the herd.
Calves are fleckvieh, blonde and Angus.
Heifers calve at 2 and all calve to Angus.
First fleckvieh heifers weaned calves this autumn

Are you using fleckvieh to bring milk into the herd for replacements? How have they performed?

 

[Danllan]

Oldest cows here are 12 years old.
Only 2 of them in 100 cow herd with a further 3 that are 11 years old.

Could keep them longer but in addition to lower calf weights always think it better to get them away when they are easier fattened before feet, udder and any other health issues start complicating things.

Straight out of my late father's rule book: don't keep anything that you know is losing value.

(But he did have a sentimentally retained beast now and then...)

 

[M-J-G]

There is a holy grail in the Suckler cow world, where you can get a small cow to produce a very high percentage of her body weight at weaning.
Which isn't that difficult to achieve.

However, these daughters of these cows that are 40+% of their dams weight at 200 days are going to have to slow their growth down if they are to have a mature weight in keeping with their dam's. Achieving that takes a bit more head scratching.

I totally agree that a cow that doesn't pull her weight should be culled, regardless of size.

 

[JD-Kid]

realy like sheep got FA to do with weight
running costs for the cow compared to calf selling cost
a bigger cow does not always mean higher feed costs she may also have lower animal healh probs etc etc on paper weight vs calf she fails yet the lighter cow may have a useless feed converson and higher vet bills
seeing alot of sucker cows have higher input diets i would be saying feed costs a big factor
a cow dropping weight takes a lot of feed to put it back on thats a high cost too

 

[Samcowman]

Are you using fleckvieh to bring milk into the herd for replacements? How have they performed?

Exactly that using them in a 3 breed rotation with Angus and blonde (at the moment).
The fleckvieh heifers were 44% Angus heifers 40% and blonde heifers 36% only 5 fleckvieh heifers this year compared to about 20 of each of the other 2 so next autumn will have a better idea. All heifers calved to the same Angus bull.

 

[west coast angus]

There is a holy grail in the Suckler cow world, where you can get a small cow to produce a very high percentage of her body weight at weaning.
Which isn't that difficult to achieve.

However, these daughters of these cows that are 40+% of their dams weight at 200 days are going to have to slow their growth down if they are to have a mature weight in keeping with their dam's. Achieving that takes a bit more head scratching.

I totally agree that a cow that doesn't pull her weight should be culled, regardless of size.

This is the exact problem I am facing, my small extremely maternal hill cows have produce cracking calfs this year and produced near 70% of their weight by weaning! Now I am scratching my head as what to do because these calfs could easily end up to big for the hill! Apart from stunting them by running them extremely hard, I am a bit lost for answers

 

[Jonny B88]

Exactly that using them in a 3 breed rotation with Angus and blonde (at the moment).
The fleckvieh heifers were 44% Angus heifers 40% and blonde heifers 36% only 5 fleckvieh heifers this year compared to about 20 of each of the other 2 so next autumn will have a better idea. All heifers calved to the same Angus bull.

Will be very interested to see how it works out when they calf down and you’re measuring their weaning %!

 

[Samcowman]

Will be very interested to see how it works out when they calf down and you’re measuring their weaning %!

Maybe a worded it poorly. lol I was never known for my English at school.
This is the 200 day weight % of these heifers first calves.
There was no difference in % for the different breeds of calves.

 

[west coast angus]

Exactly that using them in a 3 breed rotation with Angus and blonde (at the moment).
The fleckvieh heifers were 44% Angus heifers 40% and blonde heifers 36% only 5 fleckvieh heifers this year compared to about 20 of each of the other 2 so next autumn will have a better idea. All heifers calved to the same Angus bull.

Any pics

 

[Jonny B88]

Maybe a worded it poorly. lol I was never known for my English at school.
This is the 200 day weight % of these heifers first calves.
There was no difference in % for the different breeds of calves.

Aaahhhhh! Sorry I misunderstood. What sort of weights did they work into? I know they will still grow a bit.

 

[M-J-G]

This is the exact problem I am facing, my small extremely maternal hill cows have produce cracking calfs this year and produced near 70% of their weight by weaning! Now I am scratching my head as what to do because these calfs could easily end up to big for the hill! Apart from stunting them by running them extremely hard, I am a bit lost for answers

Sell them cheap to me