Suffolk x flock improvement advice

[Jimfandango]

Hi guys. I'm new to the forum so apologies if this post ends up in the wrong place.
I have come here fishing for some sage advice.
We have a small 350 lowland flock. We lamb Jan - Feb indoors and finish at about 165%. The flock is mainly Suffolk x and Dorset x but is a real melting pot of all sorts as in the old man's tenure he tried all sorts of rams and kept the replacements (rouge, texel, charollais). I have been running it properly the last 4 years or so. My current Model has been to keep the better ewes and take the flock back to a more Suffolk x dominated population so I have a solid base to move forward with the next step. Now I'm in the process of picking a maternal ram to put across my better ewes. Maybe in conjunction with a semi outside lambing strategy. Been considering lleyn or cheviot rams but also looking at roussin or a blue faced Leicester texel cross type ram. We are looking to improve liveweight gain and mothering ability. I could happily trade this off against inherited worm resistance. P.S. I don't have the funds or the inclination to sell up and start over.
Thanks in advance friends.

 

[Jimfandango]

Hi guys. I'm new to the forum so apologies if this post ends up in the wrong place.
I have come here fishing for some sage advice.
We have a small 350 lowland flock. We lamb Jan - Feb indoors and finish at about 165%. The flock is mainly Suffolk x and Dorset x but is a real melting pot of all sorts as in the old man's tenure he tried all sorts of rams and kept the replacements (rouge, texel, charollais). I have been running it properly the last 4 years or so. My current Model has been to keep the better ewes and take the flock back to a more Suffolk x dominated population so I have a solid base to move forward with the next step. Now I'm in the process of picking a maternal ram to put across my better ewes. Maybe in conjunction with a semi outside lambing strategy. Been considering lleyn or cheviot rams but also looking at roussin or a blue faced Leicester texel cross type ram. We are looking to improve liveweight gain and mothering ability. I could happily trade this off against inherited worm resistance. P.S. I don't have the funds or the inclination to sell up and start over.
Thanks in advance friends.

By "running it properly", I meant running it myself. Whether I am running it properly is up for debate

Also it is a fairly low input flock. I am not keen to increase feed costs dramatically.

Thanks

 

[Man_in_black]

How to improve a Suffolk based flock.....remove the Suffolk element???

 

[jamesy]

How to improve a Suffolk based flock.....remove the Suffolk element???

As Yoda would say - A grip you do need to get

 

[Sheepfog]

If you want to keep lambing in January and selling lambs to catch the best trade then I would move to a flying flock of buying Suffolk x mules put to Texels and Charollais. IME they’re hard to beat for an early lambing flock producing quality lambs. I know you want a closed flock, but if you could find a good source of replacements bred from the right type of Suffolk, that would be your best bet.

If you want to move to a closed flock lambing outside later in the season then I’d pick a maternal sire you like, such as Logie, Lleyn, Aberfield SR etc, and put them on your best ewes and breed up from there. Or you could buy a bunch of your chosen breed to try, but remember no one sells their best females unless it’s a dispersal sale!

 

[Dkb]

I don’t think it’s possible to improve growth rates and mothering ability with the one ram.

Also what is your long term plan? Are you going to stay indoors in Jan/feb or move to outdoors because there’s no comparison between the two systems and no breed can do both to it’s best

 

[Bill dog]

Keep your Suffolk’s indoors, they will all lamb in a puddle in the middle of a windswept field if you try and lamb them outdoor. Buy some decent 5 crop Cheviots, cross with something maternal. Keep the females and your on your way to a self replacing outdoor flock !

 

[Jimfandango]

For the purposes of this conversation let's say I am intending to continue lambing indoors.
Long term I am looking to produce a good maternal ewe that I can cross back over to a terminal sire. But in the shorter term I am in the process of figuring what breed of ram to put over my (mainly Suffolk x) flock to achieve this.
I know buying replacements is the quicker option and potentially financially better in the long run. However, I know the health status of my sheep, efficacy of wormer etc. Better the devil you know IMO.

 

[Bill dog]

If you want to keep the Suffolk’s, try an easy ram Suffolk. At least that way, the offspring will thrive off grass , won’t crap themselves to death, and the females will be viable female replacements to either breed pure again , or cross to a Tex/ Char for fat lambs .

 

[Nithsdale]

What are the ewes, Suffolk Mules or Suffolk Halfbreds? Or something other?

If you have BFL blood in the ewes already you need to keep away from a BFL tup, IMO (and I'd advise keeping away from one anyway on a lowland breed for outdoor lambing!).

Out of the breeds you have mentioned I'd be interested in using a Cheviot or Roussin. But I'm slightly confused by the semi-outside lambing... it's a big game changer to lamb outside and I don't believe you'll be successful by just crossing some of the ewes you have. You need to have a clear idea of where you want to go with your flock and what you expect the ewes to do

 

[Al R]

How to improve a Suffolk based flock.....remove the Suffolk element???

You beat me to it

Suffolk mules crossed with a charolais would be a hell of a lamb in terms of growth rates and conformation. You wouldn’t be able to keep the ewe lambs though as charolais are tough mothers that like to run/headbutt the lambs, they are 500% better than a Suffolk though apart from milk is better quality with the suffolks apparently - I know a pedigree charolais breeder that adopts the best charolais lambs onto Suffolk ewes as their milk is better quality.

 

[andybk]

^^ suffolk x mule is the most popular ewe down here , i would think 70% of my rams are used over them .good milky and growthy mothers , i would think very difficult to breed your own maternal cross and keep it simple , the hardest part some of my customers have is finding the right type of suffolk , with smaller heads and bone structure for female use , though we have found a few good flocks . Many find it easier to buy in from a trusted source .
top crossed with a medium sized blocky charollais of course (,not the racehorse type), texel if your after later finished lambs

 

[Woolless]

Keep your Suffolk’s indoors, they will all lamb in a puddle in the middle of a windswept field if you try and lamb them outdoor. Buy some decent 5 crop Cheviots, cross with something maternal. Keep the females and your on your way to a self replacing outdoor flock !

That might not be a bad idea. Wouldn't be expensive to buy a few and would give @Jimfandango a trial of outdoor lambing. I would also tend to agree with you that if I was looking to buy/breed Suffolk x ewes, then it would be a real plus if they were sired by a genuine NZ Suffolk.

 

[yellowbelly]

O.K, here's my sixpeneth...................
1) Stay with the indoor lambing.
2) Buy 2 tups, not 1.
3) A Texel, keep the best females for replacements, kill the rest.
4) A Charolais to provide faster finishing lambs to catch the best spring prices.

I rest my case, M'lord.

 

[charlie77]

Hi guys. I'm new to the forum so apologies if this post ends up in the wrong place.
I have come here fishing for some sage advice.
We have a small 350 lowland flock. We lamb Jan - Feb indoors and finish at about 165%. The flock is mainly Suffolk x and Dorset x but is a real melting pot of all sorts as in the old man's tenure he tried all sorts of rams and kept the replacements (rouge, texel, charollais). I have been running it properly the last 4 years or so. My current Model has been to keep the better ewes and take the flock back to a more Suffolk x dominated population so I have a solid base to move forward with the next step. Now I'm in the process of picking a maternal ram to put across my better ewes. Maybe in conjunction with a semi outside lambing strategy. Been considering lleyn or cheviot rams but also looking at roussin or a blue faced Leicester texel cross type ram. We are looking to improve liveweight gain and mothering ability. I could happily trade this off against inherited worm resistance. P.S. I don't have the funds or the inclination to sell up and start over.
Thanks in advance friends.

 

[charlie77]

Frontiera from Logie durno

 

[Estate fencing.]

You can't really beat the Suffolk cross mule for January/February, I have a man that buys Suffolk crosses off me as gimmers and tups them to rouge cross beltex tups for February lambing. His lambs are always topping the market because they are so long with fantastic conformation. If you are going to put the cost in of lambing early you want something that the buyers want. And if you want to lamb outside buy yourself some mules and tup to a nz Suffolk to get replacement for your early flock.