Surplus cows; sell as milkers?

[crashbox]

Have a small surplus (say a dozen cows).

Reason; haven't lost any to TB, had more heifers than planned and better conception rates. Slurry storage and cubicles mean I can't keep them.

Cows are 2nd/3rd lactation, Holstein, in calf to beef bull calving down in March/April.

Giving some milk still, not lots, say 15 litres.

Do I sell them as milkers? Is there much market for these later lactation cows?

Location South West

TIA

 

[dinderleat]

Have a small surplus (say a dozen cows).

Reason; haven't lost any to TB, had more heifers than planned and better conception rates. Slurry storage and cubicles mean I can't keep them.

Cows are 2nd/3rd lactation, Holstein, in calf to beef bull calving down in March/April.

Giving some milk still, not lots, say 15 litres.

Do I sell them as milkers? Is there much market for these later lactation cows?

Location South West

TIA

I’d be surprised if you can’t make room for 12?so you’ve killed all your 3/4qtr, johnes yellow and reds, any chronic lameness and high cell count cows?

 

[sidjon]

We normally buy mixed aged incalf cows now, talk to kivells they seem to shift a fair few.

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

Keep them cull out the lower end.

 

[som farmer]

they are the cheapest cows to buy, at that stage of lactation.

we have just bought 13 cows, 5x first, 5x second, and 3 third, medium sized friesian type cows, calving feb/march. Av price £1056, smart young, out of block cows, i/c to fr. Fats and proteins are excellent, cc most under 100, none over 200, look to be giving 15ish litres. Pretty well matches your surplus cows.

that's the mkt price for them, they were bought at a normal mkt.

But have a word with Kivells, as @sidjon says, they shift a lot of 'out of sync' cattle, and are helpful for advice etc.

with the price of fresh milk, probably keep, and sell fresh, if you can, for best return, or cull out some of your bottom end cows.

 

[Spudley]

When we were expanding I bought quite a few cows like that - they were much cheaper than fresh milk and some of them lasted a good few years. If they're sound in udder and feet someone will buy them.

 

[som farmer]

bought a 2nd calver, 3/4 xbred cow, £275.

she went on to give us 7 full lactations of 8,000 litres, bargain.

but to be honest, we have have bought plenty of out of sync grazing cows, from low yielding herds, very few have not gone on to give 7/8000 litres. Most out of a local OAD herd, have gone on to more than double their yield.

which in my opinion, proves that yield is heavily controlled, by what you feed them, not necessarily by breeding.

 

[DairyNerd]

We sold out of block calvers last year in late November in Exeter, they would have calved in late May-late June. Made about 200-300 quid more than cull value but all sold easily.

 

[crashbox]

I’d be surprised if you can’t make room for 12?so you’ve killed all your 3/4qtr, johnes yellow and reds, any chronic lameness and high cell count cows?

Yeah gone are all the offenders from the spring block.

Slowly moving towards Autumn only.

 

[Bangoverthebar]

bought a 2nd calver, 3/4 xbred cow, £275.

she went on to give us 7 full lactations of 8,000 litres, bargain.

but to be honest, we have have bought plenty of out of sync grazing cows, from low yielding herds, very few have not gone on to give 7/8000 litres. Most out of a local OAD herd, have gone on to more than double their yield.

which in my opinion, proves that yield is heavily controlled, by what you feed them, not necessarily by breeding.

I'm keen on exploring the idea that feed controls production not always breeding.
I have a spring calving grazing herd, 6300l 540kg solids. About 700kg to a 1ton, weather dependent
Hypothetically how could i get 1,500l more from those cows in an economical fashion.

 

[Kiss]

I'm keen on exploring the idea that feed controls production not always breeding.
I have a spring calving grazing herd, 6300l 540kg solids. About 700kg to a 1ton, weather dependent
Hypothetically how could i get 1,500l more from those cows in an economical fashion.

I seem to recall an old manager possibly for The RAC obtained high yields beyond the times from bought in cows out of markets, I think he wrote a book and It contained this, I can't remember the book however someone else might was quite a pioneer for his time!

 

[Wesley]

I'm keen on exploring the idea that feed controls production not always breeding.
I have a spring calving grazing herd, 6300l 540kg solids. About 700kg to a 1ton, weather dependent
Hypothetically how could i get 1,500l more from those cows in an economical fashion.

Breeding is the ultimate deciding factor in yield. If that weren’t true all our cows would give the same. But they certainly don’t. They all have the same ration at the feed fence & all have the same access to the robots. Heifers are on one feed table in the robots, all later lactation are on another. Feed influences the yield of particular breeding massively. But you can’t get out of them what they’re not capable of giving. Especially if you want it to be profitable.

 

[Cookie]

I seem to recall an old manager possibly for The RAC obtained high yields beyond the times from bought in cows out of markets, I think he wrote a book and It contained this, I can't remember the book however someone else might was quite a pioneer for his time!

Robert Boutflour. Hay and Sugar Beet pellets, 9000L from tie stall Friesians.

 

[som farmer]

I'm keen on exploring the idea that feed controls production not always breeding.
I have a spring calving grazing herd, 6300l 540kg solids. About 700kg to a 1ton, weather dependent
Hypothetically how could i get 1,500l more from those cows in an economical fashion.

we feed ours to average about 8,500, which is our herd av.

quality silage, maize and a good quality blend, ours are on 1kg of straight soya, and rolled propcorn wheat, should be giving a bit more, but on the plus side, bf 4.9 and pr 3.8, most of that lower milk is down to the shite weather, stayed in today.

listen to the feed reps, 1 kg of extra conc, will give you 2 litres of milk................. so 750 kg would solve it, or so they would say.

just started calving this month, dry cows, hols are staying in, on a ration, frs out on grass, till 3/4 wks from calving. The current weather is bad for both cows and us.

 

[DairyNerd]

I'm keen on exploring the idea that feed controls production not always breeding.
I have a spring calving grazing herd, 6300l 540kg solids. About 700kg to a 1ton, weather dependent
Hypothetically how could i get 1,500l more from those cows in an economical fashion.

Teagasc have done some research on this. They compared profitability of Spring block herds at varying stocking rates and feed rates on fragmented farms.

 

[som farmer]

I seem to recall an old manager possibly for The RAC obtained high yields beyond the times from bought in cows out of markets, I think he wrote a book and It contained this, I can't remember the book however someone else might was quite a pioneer for his time!

Bobby Bootflour. Did amazing things with yields, simply by altering rations, to include seriously better quality feed, and feeding to yield, he found the more you gave them, the higher the yield, probably to blame for all the fancy rationing we do today

Breeding is the ultimate deciding factor in yield. If that weren’t true all our cows would give the same. But they certainly don’t. They all have the same ration at the feed fence & all have the same access to the robots. Heifers are on one feed table in the robots, all later lactation are on another. Feed influences the yield of particular breeding massively. But you can’t get out of them what they’re not capable of giving. Especially if you want it to be profitable.

if breeding is the ultimate factor, having used milk plus bulls, for 50/60 years, why are cows not yielding 15,000 litres for example ? Because after decades of using milk plus bulls, very few are.

one could say, by not feeding for 15,000 litres, we are incorrectly feeding them, leading to DA.s, acidosis, poor fertility and so on. Most of the xbred cows, if 'late' breeders, could well have been the better milkers, on a proper ration, milked like hell.
and those grazing cows, are worked hard.

 

[pappuller]

I seem to recall an old manager possibly for The RAC obtained high yields beyond the times from bought in cows out of markets, I think he wrote a book and It contained this, I can't remember the book however someone else might was quite a pioneer for his time!

very interesting read

 

[Wesley]

if breeding is the ultimate factor, having used milk plus bulls, for 50/60 years, why are cows not yielding 15,000 litres for example ? Because after decades of using milk plus bulls, very few are.

one could say, by not feeding for 15,000 litres, we are incorrectly feeding them, leading to DA.s, acidosis, poor fertility and so on. Most of the xbred cows, if 'late' breeders, could well have been the better milkers, on a proper ration, milked like hell.
and those grazing cows, are worked hard.

There is far more to breeding than just serving a cow to the bull of the day that is plus in milk.
There are lots of cows that are doing those yields, we have a handful. I would also imagine there are lots more cows that are capable if fed for it.
But as I said before if it was feeding rather than genetics then if one cow could do it, then the whole herd should be. You could eat like an athlete, live & train like one but it doesn’t mean you’ll necessarily keep up with them.
Different breeds suit different systems, but they all have their limitations. Chuck all the feed you want into some breeds & although the milk may rise they’ll also get fat.

 

[betweenthelines]

The difference is how much forage individual cows eat and how they convert it.

A cow that regularly eats say, 5 kg/dm more grass or silage than it's herd mates will be able to give quite a bit extra milk.

 

[Bangoverthebar]

Teagasc have done some research on this. They compared profitability of Spring block herds at varying stocking rates and feed rates on fragmented farms.

I would keenly listen to the advices of teagasc. I would have thought them world leaders in advice on producing milk cheaply from grass.
However I feel they have changed there tune and spout environmental rhetoric and have lost sight of their mandate to provide advice to farmers to help run profitable businesses.

My own teagasc advisor told me I had a moral obligation to reduce my production and levels of protein fed.