Sustainable farming incentive details published today 2 December 2021

[HatsOff]

That could easily have been your lack of skill set as much as the system though .
We hardly use any slug pellets, insecticides or roundup in our system , and certainly not routinely pre harvest or complete fields pre ploughing .

Different soil, different microclimates, different crops, different weather each year.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I was going though records last week and we use less than 50% of the glyphosate now than we did under heavy cultivation

slug pellet use was 10% of what we used under cultivation

selective herbicides 30% lower

insecticide use 100% lower

fungicide use - no different really

Nitrogen use was 40% lower (due to rotation and reduced leaching etc)

Yes Clive, lack of skillset there. You could have used a whole lot more chemicals if you want to be a proper farmer.

 

[DRC]

Yes Clive, lack of skillset there. You could have used a whole lot more chemicals if you want to be a proper farmer.

. Lack of skills at the time if he needed all those slug pellets etc, and was ploughing .

 

[ajd132]

Ploughing is so boring

 

[bobk]

Ploughing is so boring

Killing blackgrass is soul destroying

 

[7610 super q]

Talking tosh on forums must be quite exhausting.

 

[ajd132]

Killing blackgrass is soul destroying

No till and spring crops have helped us control blackgrass. Used to rotationally plough and it didn’t bring a lot to the party, and this soil really does not plough very well.

 

[ajd132]

Talking tosh on forums must be quite exhausting.

You would know

 

[7610 super q]

I know.
But seriously, what a missed opportunity. The Clivebots on here were telling us 6 months ago how " Exciting " the new proposals were going to be. Instead, we have a half baked load of enviro - twaddle coupled with ridiculously low payments.
Could have had a clean sweep of payments altogether in favour of a forward thinking Agricultural policy which puts replacing cheap imported sh!te with home grown produce top of the agenda.
What a shame.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I know.
But seriously, what a missed opportunity. The Clivebots on here were telling us 6 months ago how " Exciting " the new proposals were going to be. Instead, we have a half baked load of enviro - twaddle coupled with ridiculously low payments.
Could have had a clean sweep of payments altogether in favour of a forward thinking Agricultural policy which puts replacing cheap imported sh!te with home grown produce top of the agenda.
What a shame.

This is government engaging with farmers. Where does common sense come into it?

Fortunately the policy seems to have moved away from the reverse taxation of paying the richest section of society a dividend on land ownership. Encouraging environmental stuff which most of the electorate would approve of seems a more progressive and democratic alternative.

There's nothing to stop anyone producing lots of cheap home grown food for the supermarkets to profit from. As far as I can see, you should be able to carry on doing that if you want.

 

[delilah]

Hi Janet this scheme is definitely going to be to the detriment of smaller often younger family farmers who are unable to engage enough in these ELMS schemes to make it worthwhile, can I suggest that Defra seriously consider something along the lines below that I have discussed with a fellow farmer.
I think after last nights election result you may find the minister & PM far more inclined to take a similar view!

Not sure why you seem to find it so difficult to comprehend, the simplest fairest solution would be to carry forward the existing SFP at the same rate of pay for the first 100 hectares for every farmer in England with any ELMS schemes separate & additional to that amount with a cap on any ELMS schemes yearly payment of I would say £50,000.
This base payment would be to ensure that those first 100 hectares were farmed under the same conditions as they were with the existing SFP.

@Janet Hughes Defra has read your post but you are unlikely to get a reply; questions beyond the minutiae of whatever is currently on the table rarely do. If you would like Janet's email address PM me, you may have more joy that way.

 

[delilah]

Instead, we have a half baked load of enviro - twaddle coupled with ridiculously low payments.

Agreeing with the rest of your post, but there is nothing eco about what the SFI currently looks like.

 

[yellow belly]

I’d say it’s debatable when you look at the over all picture. I have a “feeling” that zero till can help but I’ve no hard evidence.
Relying on big annual doses of glyphosate over an ever increasing area - is that wise?

The non notillers near me use more doses of glyphosate than I do on notill
their spring crop ground is now sprayed off any winter rainfall will leach out all available nitrogen
the cover I planted in September is now growing fast utilising the available nitrogen released by the warm temperatures
one dose of glyphosate at 2 litres per ha 360 will control the weeds in the spring prior to the emergence of a spring crop the cover plus’s the straw will suppress many spring germinating weeds ( they need daylight to germinate )
my experience from 10 years notill

 

[yellow belly]

Killing blackgrass is soul destroying

prevention Is better than cure

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

It’s the carbon cycle, soil gets to a point where it’s releasing as much carbon as it’s absorbing and can’t “store” any more.

No it doesn't.

 

[Phil P]

No it doesn't.

Ok, I’ll take your word for it then

 

[Hampton]

so the SFI is aimed at big farmers with big fields and the other two strands of ELMS is aimed at big land owning non farmers.
isn't it nice to feel valued and rewarded for environmentally doing the right thing by a scheme that is meant to reward you for doing the right thing. gives you that warm fuzzy feeling.

Well that’s what happens when you get farmers like @Clive on the steering group. They represent themselves and put forward suggestions that benefit themselves and their business. No surprise that those suggestions will not work for small farms or hill farms

 

[DrWazzock]

Haven’t used any glyphosate this year. Can’t get any.

 

[DrWazzock]

Well that’s what happens when you get farmers like @Clive on the steering group. They represent themselves and put forward suggestions that benefit themselves and their business. No surprise that those suggestions will not work for small farms or hill farms

Well maybe then it’s partly our own fault for not getting, (in my case), small mixed farmers who use a mix of techniques onto the steering group.
Personally though I think it’s so hard to decide what are “public goods” that either every farmer or no farmer should have the sub.
I’ll never know why there is this insistence that we have to “get rid” of £3bn into agriculture. All it does is inflate our costs and we are back to square one. Just look at the price of direct drills and cover seed mixes, the new crack cocaine of conservation agriculture.

 

[ajd132]

Well maybe then it’s partly our own fault for not getting, (in my case), small mixed farmers who use a mix of techniques onto the steering group.
Personally though I think it’s so hard to decide what are “public goods” that either every farmer or no farmer should have the sub.
I’ll never know why there is this insistence that we have to “get rid” of £3bn into agriculture. All it does is inflate our costs and we are back to square one. Just look at the price of direct drills and cover seed mixes, the new crack cocaine of conservation agriculture.

I was about to say, anyone could get involved with all this if they wanted.