tb lumps

[Chris123]

Is it the top or the bottom lump which indicates a reactor? Reading tomorrow and noticed a lot of the cattle have got lumps on top quite big ones as well how big have they got to be to be a reactor on annual testing

 

[C.J]

It is usual for the avian dose to be the top injection , think avian - bird - flying therefore above the bovine injection.

As long as they are bigger than the bottom lump you have nothing to worry about.

 

[azimuth]

ditto,,,,,avian top....bovine bottom.long as top bigger than btm...all ok.some of mine had lumps at top nothing below.some had no lumps.all passed ok.

 

[Blue.]

Depends if the vet got the jabs the correct way up a ministry vet got them the wrong way round on one of mine but noticed and booked it down,would it be an idea to video them while testing?

I'm convinced another vet got them mixed up and cost me a couple of cows and not to mention a lot of testing work and worry.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Depends if the vet got the jabs the correct way up a ministry vet got them the wrong way round on one of mine but noticed and booked it down,would it be an idea to video them while testing?

I'm convinced another vet got them mixed up and cost me a couple of cows and not to mention a lot of testing work and worry.

Wouldn't surprise me, only reactor we've ever had was a cow bought from Norfolk which came back negative so lost a good cow and the hassle of being shut down and extra testing. I know that's nothing to what some go through but i often wonder if simple human error was the problem.

 

[Blue.]

Wouldn't surprise me, only reactor we've ever had was a cow bought from Norfolk which came back negative so lost a good cow and the hassle of being shut down and extra testing. I know that's nothing to what some go through but i often wonder if simple human error was the problem.

They called them false positives,I call it rubbish.

 

[Chris123]

3 out of 30 cows full reactors 5 inconclusives the vet wouldn't bump up to full reactors so some of those will come back as full reactors in the next test for sure. Been clear for two years before this after being shut down for nearly 6 years. Seriously considering whether to do away with the sucklers now not worth the hassle for what you get out of them or am i wrong. Always the cows that we have had trouble with tb wise never had a case in youngstock surely they both exposed to same risks when grazing, does anyone else find this

 

[C.J]

Sorry to here that.Reguarding the inconclusives , if they find any leisons , they will apply a severe interpretation and they may have to go.

 

[lim x]

3 out of 30 cows full reactors 5 inconclusives the vet wouldn't bump up to full reactors so some of those will come back as full reactors in the next test for sure. Been clear for two years before this after being shut down for nearly 6 years. Seriously considering whether to do away with the sucklers now not worth the hassle for what you get out of them or am i wrong. Always the cows that we have had trouble with tb wise never had a case in youngstock surely they both exposed to same risks when grazing, does anyone else find this

Oh dear, not a good day for you. We have only had inconclusives, and those were negative after the next test, but as you say, its always the cows that are the worry. not sure why as the young have also been out grazing. My chaps folks had some reactors, but came back negative, and again it was the older cows. They were also advised by the vet to be rid of around half a dozen as they could cause problems in future tests, but they ignored the advice and those cows have never been a problem in future tests.

 

[Chips]

Where about's in Shropshire , We're near Chirbury and have just gone back down after being clear for 6 mths . Never had any lesions before though , but this time we thought we would test just the store cattle as a part test so we could sell these before doing the rest of the herd , these 23 were housed half a mile from the rest since their clear test 6 mths ago ,10 failed out of this group aged between 11 and 18 mths , with massive lumps , one came back with lesions so when the rest of the herd was tested we were put on severe interpretation and lost another 4 as reactors plus another 4 are IR's and no doubt will lose some of these at 60 test . Because our cows Last, ( we have milkers up to 18 years old) we get bugger all for them despite them being Organic ,all but one cow went for £819 and the heifer a couple of months off bulling went for little more than £400 , add to this we can't replace even if you could find organic Holstien cows for 60 days means another £2400 loss in milk sales . Now that we are on severe interpretation and need two clear tests coupled with only one re test on IR's I fear this could finish our dairy business, my father in law has been down for well over 5 years ,lost countless cattle but he is lucky if you can call it that in that he's a few miles from me and the other side of the border and thus doesn't get robbed blind ,there is no way my Businness can stand the kind of stock losses he has with the table valuations in England .
I was told as my cattle were collected this morning that a big breakdown a few miles away with over 300 cattle been taken was traced to badgers from the other side of the country no doubt relocated by welfare (if welfare means campaigning for the mass spread of fatal diseases) groups .There happens to be a brand new sett just by the shed where the stores were wintered . So is there any real hope for the future , the AHVLA say they are confident of the culls going ahead this time but surely as soon as the cull stops welfare groups will just dump every diseased badger they can lay there hands on in the area , TB will increase and they will use this result for the rest of their lives againsts us just like they do with the Kerbs trials which were apparently heavily tampered with .Would these holier than though types put up with living with an infestation of diseased rats in their houses ? I think we need to unite like we did over the milk prices and protest on mass

 

[Blue.]

Sorry to here this chips.

The only way I could deal with this would be house stock all year round and fence the yard(badger proof).

Can tb be brought in on grass for silage?

 

[Chris123]

South shrops near ludlow we are. reading other posts on tb on another thread most seemed to think you couldn't bring tb in with silage. Agree with you on the compensation for animals they take looked on the scale for what we will get compensation wise for the two sucklers March valuation was £100 head more than the April valuation why is this thought it was based on the market prices previous month which around us have stayed firm certainly not dropped anyhow

 

[jimmer]

local chap had sett under remote hay barn went there every couple of days to get hay to take to out wintered cattle where no setts at all ...... need i say any more

found a road kill with tattoo under front leg back a bit. released onto national trust land a stones throw from here
bloody kidner
bloody secret world

 

[gone up the hill]

3 out of 30 cows full reactors 5 inconclusives the vet wouldn't bump up to full reactors so some of those will come back as full reactors in the next test for sure. Been clear for two years before this after being shut down for nearly 6 years. Seriously considering whether to do away with the sucklers now not worth the hassle for what you get out of them or am i wrong. Always the cows that we have had trouble with tb wise never had a case in youngstock surely they both exposed to same risks when grazing, does anyone else find this

Very similar here, cows are plastered with it ( had 90 when went down for the first time 6 years ago and now down to 19!! all the rest have gone as reactors, worst test was 13 cows and all had to be shot on farm as had been fluked, im a tough guy but i dont mind saying i had to get in the car and drive up the road before they started shooting them! ) we do get the odd young animal with it but even then its normally heifers in their 2nd grazing summer, as for the IRs, some will be reactors and some wont at the next test.. iv just had a really healthy 2nd calver go down for no reason ( was a iR back in nov then went clear in feb... ) no hope for her so had the knackerman to put her down and the vet to cut her open... bloody riddled with tb all over... unreal and had to be seen to believe it.... she had tb lesions on her spine which put her down and then secondary infection all but fhinshed her... be hard at your next test, any cows borederline get rid off...

As for the future... i will buy in stirks but will rebuild my sucklers to 30 head but they will be ped simply for the reason that the comp for commercial sucklers is a bloody disgrace.. ( got £910 for pd in calve 2nd calvers back in Nov so if you take the value of the calve into account i only got £610 for the cow... bloody hopeless!!! )

Dont let them beat you....

 

[roscoe erf]

you ask them how a closed herd no on movements no cattle to cattle contact gets tb and they shrug and say no body really knows for sure i have been told cats/foxes/badgers/ dogs/ slurry /rats you name it can carry t.b its probably the vets

 

[gone up the hill]

you ask them how a closed herd no on movements no cattle to cattle contact gets tb and they shrug and say no body really knows for sure i have been told cats/foxes/badgers/ dogs/ slurry /rats you name it can carry t.b its probably the vets

My herd was closed before we started losing so many cows due to tb and its defo badgers, were seeing then out crawling along the fields in daylight so knew what was coming before we orginally went down...

 

[C.J]

I have a closed herd - Buy a bull in every 3 years but never had a bull get Tb. In 2010 had 53 reactors out of 170.

The worst day of my farming career was to get up at 5.00 am to seperate 19 3-12 week old calves from their mothers who were going to be slaughtered.

There is no Tb in our valley but as my numbers grow I take more grass keep and thats where the problems start.

We're back on 12 month testing now calving 40 home bred pedigree South Devons, but too many quality cows went and my herd consistancy is

 

[roscoe erf]

I have a closed herd - Buy a bull in every 3 years but never had a bull get Tb. In 2010 had 53 reactors out of 170.

The worst day of my farming career was to get up at 5.00 am to seperate 19 3-12 week old calves from their mothers who were going to be slaughtered.

There is no Tb in our valley but as my numbers grow I take more grass keep and thats where the problems start.

We're back on 12 month testing now calving 40 home bred pedigree South Devons, but too many quality cows went and my herd consistancy is

when we had a breakdown as with you had that awful stomach tearing when the first reactor was confirmed lost 50% of the heard but the calves went too,lost a lot of heifers due that month one of the worst days yes,but we picked yourselves up and solidered on know where your coming from.

 

[Sid]

Where about's in Shropshire , We're near Chirbury and have just gone back down after being clear for 6 mths . Never had any lesions before though , but this time we thought we would test just the store cattle as a part test so we could sell these before doing the rest of the herd , these 23 were housed half a mile from the rest since their clear test 6 mths ago ,10 failed out of this group aged between 11 and 18 mths , with massive lumps , one came back with lesions so when the rest of the herd was tested we were put on severe interpretation and lost another 4 as reactors plus another 4 are IR's and no doubt will lose some of these at 60 test . Because our cows Last, ( we have milkers up to 18 years old) we get bugger all for them despite them being Organic ,all but one cow went for £819 and the heifer a couple of months off bulling went for little more than £400 , add to this we can't replace even if you could find organic Holstien cows for 60 days means another £2400 loss in milk sales . Now that we are on severe interpretation and need two clear tests coupled with only one re test on IR's I fear this could finish our dairy business, my father in law has been down for well over 5 years ,lost countless cattle but he is lucky if you can call it that in that he's a few miles from me and the other side of the border and thus doesn't get robbed blind ,there is no way my Businness can stand the kind of stock losses he has with the table valuations in England .
I was told as my cattle were collected this morning that a big breakdown a few miles away with over 300 cattle been taken was traced to badgers from the other side of the country no doubt relocated by welfare (if welfare means campaigning for the mass spread of fatal diseases) groups .There happens to be a brand new sett just by the shed where the stores were wintered . So is there any real hope for the future , the AHVLA say they are confident of the culls going ahead this time but surely as soon as the cull stops welfare groups will just dump every diseased badger they can lay there hands on in the area , TB will increase and they will use this result for the rest of their lives againsts us just like they do with the Kerbs trials which were apparently heavily tampered with .Would these holier than though types put up with living with an infestation of diseased rats in their houses ? I think we need to unite like we did over the milk prices and protest on mass

It stinks, having been through a couple of years of losing in calf and freshly calved heifers and running a low replacement rate herd we ended up keeping cows we shouldn't have and had a SCC problem. We had to buy in replacement heifers with people lying to us as to the disease status of their herds(no your not Johnes free Mr X, and I told him so and he called me a liar and the 3 yr old heifer i'd had for 6 months caught it on my farm!!).

Not looking forward to our next breakdown when they will steal our old cows form us because their "market value" is low. But to me to breed from a long life cows is worth more than a heifer!!

the value we were paid for our in-calf heifers wouldn't even cover the cost of finding a replacement organic bulling heifer! Maybe government workers shouldn't be allowed back for 2 weeks with no pay after they've had a day off on sick pay to prevent others catching it?

 

[jade35]

CJ, roscoe erf and Sid, was going to put a like against your posts but couldn't because each post sums up the heartbreak and futility of TB and a like seemed silly in your circumstances. We have been luckier so far in that we haven't had large numbers go at any one time, but that sinking feeling when you are under restriction again is horrible.

Is the spoligotype in the South Hams one that produces more visual lesions as we have heard of another farmer in the area with cattle regularly taken with lesions shown at PM? The spoligotype in SE Cornwall seems to be NVL at post mortem more often than VL (although our last reactor heifer did have lesions) and that can be frustrating because you do wonder if it is false positive esp. in 2 x inconclusives.