The emperor has no clothes….

[Alfred the average]

Not for the first time have I read of a direct drill comparison and found the best margins were obtained by quite a large percentage by a more conventional approach. ( This weeks FW )
Is it possible that DD and cover cropping can work and can be successful but if you are not bothered about being trendy or seen by your neighbours as an innovator but are more interested in tried and tested reliable bottom line results stick to a more conventional approach.
A system that generally seems over the past decades to cope with a variety of weather and soil types year on year .

 

[7610 super q]

Both systems work. Nothing wrong with either system. Each to their own. I plough, but use cover crops where I can. Don't like to see bare soil. No till definitely saves time and fuel.
But........The problem starts when shouty people convince governments one system is better than another.
Giving substantial grants for purchasing some machinery such as short discs, and DD drills, but not others is scandalous, let alone shaping future policy for food production ( or not as the case maybe ).

 

[cb387]

DD’ing spring barley into wet snotty clay is never going to give good results, unless you are looking to prove it doesn’t work. DD is just one part of a system that works for many.

 

[Nearly]

Spending £50k on a drill is not for everyone.
If someone was determined they could spend £50k on 'conventional' kit.

On my little patch it's cheaper for me to plough and combi drill. (£5k in kit). Wearing parts, diesel and me are the only costs.
Min till drill in the shed is another £5k but it has helped me to rethink the job.
Plough and combi are still there as backup.

A direct drill will only plant the seed. I'm learning there's many things before and after using any drill that help.
It used to be called 'mixed farming' or using 'green manures'.

 

[7610 super q]

Incidentally ,during the fall of Saigon in '75, I was tasked with seeking out and terminating a rogue regen farmer who had apparently gone completely mad.
As I made my way up the Nung river in a gunboat, I perused colonel Clive's dossier ( pausing briefly to wave at Martin Sheen passing the opposite way down river ) and I couldn't believe that such a well respected ex dairy/ potato farmer, and founder of the UK's fourth best farming forum could have lost the plot so rapidly.
The further up river we traveled, the more evidence of no till farming we saw. Land both sides of the river was chest high in blackgrass, giving ample cover for natives to throw Mzuri drill points at us. Chief was impaled by a Metcalf leg tine, which annoyed him greatly.
Further up river, we past a gig laid on by Agrifac, but the Agrifac girls were late, and nobody was interested in looking at posh sprayers.
Eventually, on the Cambodian boarder we located Col Clive and his band of rogue regen followers.
I Handed Col Clive a handful of Kuhn and Kverneland plough brochures , he burst into tears, exclaimed " The horror, the horror, what have I done ", and dived head first onto an expensive straw rake.
The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[delilah]

The problem starts when shouty people convince governments one system is better than another.

This.
ELMS isn't a dogs breakfast because of the Moonbat, or Carrie, or the Goldsmiths, or Janet Hughes' dietary choices, or Gary Lineker (probably going to be blamed on here next). It's the fault of folks on here. Farmers, once again, showing they are their own worst enemy.

 

[David.]

Incidentally ,during the fall of Saigon in '75, I was tasked with seeking out and terminating a rogue regen farmer who had apparently gone completely mad.
As I made my way up the Nung river in a gunboat, I perused colonel Clive's dossier ( pausing briefly to wave at Martin Sheen passing the opposite way down river ) and I couldn't believe that such a well respected ex dairy/ potato farmer, and founder of the UK's fourth best farming forum could have lost the plot so rapidly.
The further up river we traveled, the more evidence of no till farming we saw. Land both sides of the river was chest high in blackgrass, giving ample cover for natives to throw Mzuri drill points at us. Chief was impaled by a Metcalf leg tine, which annoyed him greatly.
Further up river, we past a gig laid on by Agrifac, but the Agrifac girls were late, and nobody was interested in looking at posh sprayers.
Eventually, on the Cambodian boarder we located Col Clive and his band of rogue regen followers.
I Handed Col Clive a handful of Kuhn and Kverneland plough brochures , he burst into tears, exclaimed " The horror, the horror, what have I done ", and dived head first onto an expensive straw rake.
The rest, as they say, is history.

Well done.
Satire is indeed not yet dead .

 

[robs1]

Not for the first time have I read of a direct drill comparison and found the best margins were obtained by quite a large percentage by a more conventional approach. ( This weeks FW )
Is it possible that DD and cover cropping can work and can be successful but if you are not bothered about being trendy or seen by your neighbours as an innovator but are more interested in tried and tested reliable bottom line results stick to a more conventional approach.
A system that generally seems over the past decades to cope with a variety of weather and soil types year on year .

One trial set up badly isn't going to give good results, no researcher wanting respect uses one trial but many

 

[Against_the_grain]

Both systems work. Nothing wrong with either system. Each to their own. I plough, but use cover crops where I can. Don't like to see bare soil. No till definitely saves time and fuel.
But........The problem starts when shouty people convince governments one system is better than another.
Giving substantial grants for purchasing some machinery such as short discs, and DD drills, but not others is scandalous, let alone shaping future policy for food production ( or not as the case maybe ).

Absolutely spot on

 

[David.]

Plough based systems usually come out on top for gross yield, whether its worth burning the extra diesel at 80p litre is entirely another question.
Crops only need to look well one day in their life.
I'm doing a bit of both, where appropriate, and have to say, putting a few bags of seed in a gateway and then watching someone DD it into near perfect conditions, is quite therapeutic.
Considering I have several times in the past sat out there in the early hours, powerharrowing in order to get a Suffolk coulter into the ground.

 

[spin cycle]

Incidentally ,during the fall of Saigon in '75, I was tasked with seeking out and terminating a rogue regen farmer who had apparently gone completely mad.
As I made my way up the Nung river in a gunboat, I perused colonel Clive's dossier ( pausing briefly to wave at Martin Sheen passing the opposite way down river ) and I couldn't believe that such a well respected ex dairy/ potato farmer, and founder of the UK's fourth best farming forum could have lost the plot so rapidly.
The further up river we traveled, the more evidence of no till farming we saw. Land both sides of the river was chest high in blackgrass, giving ample cover for natives to throw Mzuri drill points at us. Chief was impaled by a Metcalf leg tine, which annoyed him greatly.
Further up river, we past a gig laid on by Agrifac, but the Agrifac girls were late, and nobody was interested in looking at posh sprayers.
Eventually, on the Cambodian boarder we located Col Clive and his band of rogue regen followers.
I Handed Col Clive a handful of Kuhn and Kverneland plough brochures , he burst into tears, exclaimed " The horror, the horror, what have I done ", and dived head first onto an expensive straw rake.
The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

If the results are the same then for my all grass farm direct drilling is 100 % better,
And I'm done with picking stones and spending hours on harrows , if the results are the same ,
If you don't have stony ground and you have time on your hands then by all means use a plough

 

[Spencer]

Farmers, once again, showing they are their own worst enemy.

Ever was thus.. But the ship has sailed

 

[ajd132]

Found a purist route of no till and cover crops wasn’t consistent enough here on heavy clay for spring barley. We have gone back to do a shallow cultivation with a cover crop broadcast which then gets killed off on jan and drilled whenever it’s dry enough is the best of both worlds.

it’s a shame Andrew ward doesn’t tell the full story though, he may well have an old depreciated drill but also has a brand new 8RX which would be exceedingly expensive to own on the area he talks about. I know because I have one, on three times the area, and it is expensive to own!

 

[jonnieboy]

Do what works for you
It’s not soil types the barrier but the mindset if you don’t want it work it won’t
Having ploughed 1000 ac every year for far too many years I wanted it to work

 

[ajd132]

Do what works for you
It’s not soil types the barrier but the mindset if you don’t want it work it won’t
Having ploughed 1000 ac every year for far too many years I wanted it to work

Also depends on the value of crop. Last year any loss in yield had a huge affect to margins.

 

[nxy]

Increasingly the job is about spending less, we have reached a point where its actually easier to save money than raise yield. Direct drilling can be cheaper for some and some might be better spinning seed on and working it in. Its more about being aware of the cost and what are you going to do with the time saved. Less than ideal sowing is going to be less important than not getting a pre emergence on if you are battling resistant grass weeds for example. Though I will say for me using a cheap quick establishment method that hinges on a 100k drill is a nonsense from the start.

 

[Bury the Trash]

If the results are the same then for my all grass farm direct drilling is 100 % better,
And I'm done with picking stones and spending hours on harrows , if the results are the same ,
If you don't have stony ground and you have time on your hands then by all means use a plough

If you get chance visit Australia i'm sure you would find it very interesting
they would laugh at some one suggesting the plough, far too slow and disruptive for the areas they do. ploughs haven't been used there for donkeys years.

I think there's too much farting around burning fuel done here, in relatively small fields economics are now and will change that in the future .

 

[jonnieboy]

Also depends on the value of crop. Last year any loss in yield had a huge affect to margins.

It did yes but selling well had a bigger affect on margins
With you on spring barley hate the bloody stuff
Last resort here

 

[ajd132]

It did yes but selling well had a bigger affect on margins
With you on spring barley hate the bloody stuff
Last resort here

It’s definitely the most difficult to direct drill.
Certainly wouldn’t use it as a benchmark on whether or not to direct drill other crops though.