The future of UK dairying

[Happy at it]

This isn't a reaction to the recent downturn in prices, but it seems that every paper, news article, discussion from government etc seems to paint dairying in a very negative light.

There's always something regarding carbon, nitrates, ammonia water pollution, welfare standards, removal of subs etc that seems to be looming in the background, that could have the potential to make things very difficult for people trying to earn a living from milking cows.

What is peoples take on things going forward? Does anyone else have concerns with regard to thier future in the industry, and is it wrong to be apprehensive about making long term investments with so much uncertainty at present....

 

[Wee Willy]

Do you remember when the nitrates directive was introduced into N. Ireland? It was forecast to be the end of farming in NI. What actually happened? We got big grants to put up slurry stores and we are actually using slurry as a fertilizer now.
Don't over think/worry about things. Today's generation are constantly bombarded with doomsday predictions. I feel a pity for those who take it all seriously. They can't chillax and enjoy life.
People still need milk. People love their cheese, milkshakes and ice cream.
Head down,arse up and continue working at what you enjoy. Life's too short to worry.

 

[vantage]

The darkest hour is the one before dawn!

 

[SantaCruz]

I have to say I do think about it a good bit and wonder should I be doing things to get ahead of it. I'm early 30s so hope I have a good few years left yet and wonder how it will be in 10 15 years. I like the idea of being able to sell direct to customer and cutting out some of the big processers and make farming local again

 

[som farmer]

we are in an NVZ, probably reduced our N profitably.

Mates in one, and now in a Nitrate Leaching Index, Poole catchment area.

He has struggled to fill all the forms in, and his l/agent hasn't done much better. And l couldn't see 'it' either.

What l did 'get', is if you have 'spare', the waterboard will lease them from you, l wonder why ......................

This follows on from the Phosphates polluting various water systems, l have heard a farm has been purchased, in Dorset, so phosphate levels can be set against that. Huge problems for the Somerset levels with phosphate levels.

It looks like another reduction in N use.

His EA 'inspector', also said the EA are clamping down on farms, in N Devon, on slurry storage hard.

This inspector had been working there, on that, before taking this job, previously to that Defra.

They really do seem very keen on hitting farming very hard. A policy we know/think will bite them where it really hurts.

 

[Bald Rick]

Investment point is a very valid one. Dairy is a hungry beast for wonga and it doesn’t take long before you fall behind.

Major problem is that there is no clarity or direction as policy seems to flip and flop.
So how big are your balls?

 

[crashbox]

Matching stocking rate to farm capacity here, plus a bigger allowance for a poor season. No money in reliance on bought in forage and cake, so destocked.

Resilience and work-life balance are key objectives, providing we can keep the bank happy, certainly don't get a kick out of producing more milk for diminishing returns.

 

[som farmer]

we have reduced by a lot of cows, several reasons, labour, and inability to produce the amount/enough grub we used to produce.

Stocking rate about what the farm can comfortably carry in these seemingly endless dry summers, growing 20/30 acres cereals for our own use, and extra maize. Any surplus maize, we have an outlet.

Upped the beef side, they are cashable at any stage, if needs must.

And farming for a much drier climate, we seem to have been able to save a lot of money doing that, pretty well all min-til or DD, works well.

Investment, minor yes, major no, dairy unit needs major update, slurry ok for now, but for the future, we need a new unit, buildings are nearly 60 years old, with adaptions. Cows will go, when that stage is reached, and so will the fudging red tractor red tape.

 

[Tamar]

Don't panic............. the majority of people still want milk on their morning cereal and in their tea.

 

[som farmer]

Don't panic............. the majority of people still want milk on their morning cereal and in their tea.

but the majority of politicians and climate zealots, don't want us.

 

[crashbox]

Upped the beef side, they are cashable at any stage, if needs must.

Yes, except for the constant risk of TB devaluing your hard work by a five figure sum, seems to be a constant threat and another factor making UK dairying harder Vs our international competition...

 

[som farmer]

TB the nightmare scenario.

We have been making some serious prices of beef stirks at 5-6 month old, £650 for blue bulls, £580 for hfrd steers at 5 months, our own dairy x. Bought in ones not the same quality, not far behind. Would we be making anymore profit, by keeping them to finish ? Sold nearly 70 as stirks, AA BB and hfrd, odd FR, av £505, hfrs and bulls/steers.

What it does mean, if the dreaded TB test in August, goes wrong, we haven't got masses of beef cattle about, for when the cows/hfrs start calving sept.

But TB is an expensive problem, l don't know the TB comp rates at the moment, but its the loss of production that's the killer, depending how big the toll is, odd few is manageable, when we hear of 20/30 or more, that's a big big problem.

With the beefer's, sold 70, another 50 here, and 120 due sept onwards, dry summer, numbers v fodder begin to start being a problem ! Especially if we had kept the 70 !!!!!

TB

 

[jimmer]

Investment point is a very valid one. Dairy is a hungry beast for wonga and it doesn’t take long before you fall behind.

Major problem is that there is no clarity or direction as policy seems to flip and flop.
So how big are your balls?

Can't agree with first sentence
Milk is milk, it comes from a cow
She doesn't need to be pedigree, feeding her with the leading brand of tractor or machinery won't make her milk worth more, nor will wearing 300 quid wellies in a half million pound milking parlour

 

[som farmer]

Can't agree with first sentence
Milk is milk, it comes from a cow
She doesn't need to be pedigree, feeding her with the leading brand of tractor or machinery won't make her milk worth more, nor will wearing 300 quid wellies in a half million pound milking parlour

correct, you don't have to spend a fortune. When we re-started milking again, we installed a step-up abreast parlour, for £5,000, working, including the bulk tank, worked extremely well, till we went over 100 cows. Then the h/bone was excavated, £8,000 to do a 16/16 with feeders. We upgraded again, to 24/24, cost very little, hard work, but 3 or 4 defunct parlours, provided all we needed, and a heap of spares for the fitter !

But the cattle buildings are 'well used', and seem to attract RT 'dislikes' every visit. Though l don't see what it has to do with them, cows are comfy, no welfare issues, look a bit tatty, as they would, after 60 yrs.

To continue long term, a new unit would be much much easier. Not my decision, that's the next generation's decision, already made, no.

 

[Jamer]

Can't agree with first sentence
Milk is milk, it comes from a cow
She doesn't need to be pedigree, feeding her with the leading brand of tractor or machinery won't make her milk worth more, nor will wearing 300 quid wellies in a half million pound milking parlour

On the whole I agree with your sentiment. Where I beg to differ is the slurry/water framework/ammonia regs bearing down on us; an almighty investment for many that is effectively just a license to keep producing. And of no resale value to add to the unpalatability.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Don't panic............. the majority of people still want milk on their morning cereal and in their tea.

I don’t eat breakfast cereals & I only drink black tea & coffee






But, I do enjoy a cold glass of milk & do use a lot of yoghurt & cream

 

[kiwi pom]

I don’t eat breakfast cereals & I only drink black tea & coffee






But, I do enjoy a cold glass of milk & do use a lot of yoghurt & cream

I don't think a lot of these people harping on about how bad dairying is realise how many things milk and its constituents are used for.
When they talk about getting rid of it, they forget about things like infant formula.

Dairying will be fine, that doesn't mean every dairy farm will be successful.

 

[Farmer Roy]

I don't think a lot of these people harping on about how bad dairying is realise how many things milk and its constituents are used for.
When they talk about getting rid of it, they forget about things like infant formula.

Dairying will be fine, that doesn't mean every dairy farm will be successful.

I have no involvement in dairy at all, but I understand that “fresh” milk is only a small part of the whole dairy market / end uses ?

 

[Bald Rick]

Can't agree with first sentence
Milk is milk, it comes from a cow
She doesn't need to be pedigree, feeding her with the leading brand of tractor or machinery won't make her milk worth more, nor will wearing 300 quid wellies in a half million pound milking parlour

I would argue that you are wrong with your first sentence

Every dairy farm is constantly investing - it's just degrees thereof.
If you don't invest, you will fall behind very rapidly and then it will be very expensive to recover your former position never mind improving it.

I am not talking about shiny stuff but the basics - cows, pastures, yard infrastructure etc. It all costs to maintain and generally, money is spent to improve something (or in other words, investment)

 

[kiwi pom]

I have no involvement in dairy at all, but I understand that “fresh” milk is only a small part of the whole dairy market / end uses ?

The dairy factory I used to cart into could take 12 million litres a day at peak and is basically a dozen factories on one site.
Didn't bottle a drop (I'm fairly sure), cafe and smoko room had to buy milk in for a brew