The NFU backs gene editing. Do you ?

[Cheesehead]

Still not a technology.
It can be its seem on majority of organic farms as an asset, and by conventional farms as a liability. Plenty export it.

Partly because conventional farming can not further than the next quick fix in a can or bottle.
Still famines now, plenty of issues with food production and soil erosion.
Why does everythinghave to save the world.

If you want to save the world stop using finite resources.

Plenty of the world are organic. Think of the saving in pollution clean up.

It is seen as an asset to a lot of conventional farmer some also use it as a discount or payment for straw etc. Just with any farm it can also be badly stored and misapplied in either system with damaging consequences.


Plenty of conventional farms are looking at multiple ways to farm sustainably and most plan for long term due to the fact farming is not a a get rich quick. I have seen plenty of issue or soil erosion in organic systems which have relied solely on mechanical means of weed control. Even though it was controversial due to the fact one was seen as the grandfather or chemical warfare both Haber and Bosch won a Nobel prize for their invention for the very fact that it had helped increase yields to the point of being credited as saving more lives than penicillin. Most recent famine have been through war or exasperated through war, in a MIT study it was found that if all agriculture turned organic it could only feed just over half the world population or we would have to increase agricultural land by 1.5 times at the expense of other habitats to produce enough.


As an organic dairy farm perhaps you could answer a question that I have been curious about where a lot of organic farms use Clickzin to control flystrike in sheep as they have to use the product with the shortest withdrawal does that also apply to wormers as I presume like ourselves you only worm when necessary rather than as routine but I wasn't sure if you need to worm any if you are limited to the shortest withdrawal?

Also as an organic farmer how do you feel about those short-term synthetic fix being allowed to be used in organic farming though a lot of organic market refers to pesticides used? Surely it would be better to rely solely on organic means like citronella fly repellant etc to stay pure to the ethos of organic.

As you were saying conventional farming hasn't saved the world I though it only fair to point out that neither has organic which on average makes more passes per growing season than conventional using a finite resource that is diesel and contributing to more air pollution.

Again organic is not necessarily clean or sustainable with soil and water pollution from copper based organic fungicides which were unsustainably being used at increasing levels due to efficiency problems to the point the EU had to limit its license as a fungicide due to concerns over the levels with some organic producers on the continent complaining that the lower limits will make unsustainable as it is their only licensed product with others switching already to conventional due to concern over the health of their souls so they can use synthetic alternative that don't accumulate as copper does.

Organic does not automatically mean sustainable admittedly neither does conventional but there seems to be a misconception that if something is organic then it must be sustainable.

 

[wanton dwarf]

There are plenty .
Try Google.

Well we are talking about farming. What resources that effect farming are finite such that we need to worry about them ?

 

[wanton dwarf]

Phosphorus mines?

Anything that gets eaten should be able to be recycled at water works ?

 

[Cheesehead]

Biggest joke ever is Lord Krebs of the FSA saying organic farmers potentially have more to gain from GE......more to lose ,like its customers!

I am guessing he is meaning the rise in price of products in America carrying the Non-GMO Project verification label be it apples, smoothies or 100% Organic, GMO Free, Pink Himalayan Rock Salt.

I always find it funny people often say Monsanto and their parent company are evil as they make billions off the gullible when Whole Foods Market and their parent company make them look like Steptoe & Son in terms of turnover especially when the same evil companies supply a lot of the organic certified sprays and seeds in North America.

I would have said they have more to lose if conventional farmers became organic as for a lot it would become financially unviable as a business without a market premium.

 

[Sid]

This is a thread about GE

Not about Organic farming.

Happy to answer those points if you start a new thread and tag me in

 

[Cheesehead]

This is a thread about GE

Not about Organic farming.

Happy to answer those points if you start a new thread and tag me in

Sorry I was just thinking as that's what you seemed to be saying was bad about GE and conventional farming that you would want to show that organic farming didn't do the same with it not being more a marketing thing given that they originally approve of GE in organic farming until they saw that there would be more money not growing it and marketing it as such?

 

[delilah]

https://www.facebook.com/LandWorkersAlliance/posts/3694273887332941

 

[delilah]

Consultation closes 17 March.

https://www.facebook.com/LandWorkersAlliance/posts/3755345981225731

 

[delilah]

Final chance to have your say, consultation closes tomorrow.

https://www.facebook.com/LandWorkersAlliance/photos/a.635714083188952/3785525848207744

 

[delilah]

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/agri-f...kw7jdjLWffAIiOeAWY-V_nudqpOQt2-yiDam2U4SCrYT4

 

[Cheesehead]

https://www.facebook.com/LandWorkersAlliance/photos/a.635714083188952/3785525848207744

I would just like to point out a few errors in that statement first of all even in conventional seed and organic you have big seed corporations most which if you follow the American though as he seems to supply not only both GM and GE but are also the biggest suppliers of organic seed.

Also just because a seed is conventional or organic does not mean that saving seed is automatically allowed even on some of our grass and forage mixes it has stated in some of the Terms of Sale that seed from from some of the mixes can not be intentionally gathered to be sown. Being GM or GE does not automatically mean that you can't save the seed either like with conventional and organic it is dependant on the breeder.

Ironically contrary to to his statement is it actually conventional and even organic seed development and breeding that is unregulated beyond that the latter has been grown organically where as any GM or GE sees has to be tested for 10 years before it is commercially available and I believe is a number of years before field trials are allowed unlike conventional or organic seed breeding.

Organic does not necessarily and automatically mean environmentally sustainable there are shortsighted idiots in all sectors.

I also note that as a seller or organic seed that he does not state that he has a vested interest in pushing for a continued ban or for farms to be pushed to organic.

Sorry it is just a pet peeve of mine when I get bombarded online and in papers and magazines about how organic doesn't use pesticides or antibiotics while silently implying everyone else is pumping their animals or soaking their field in sprays and artificial fertilisers especially when you have a delivery driver nearly drop off a load of pour-on that was labelled to go to a local organic farm.

 

[delilah]

https://www.facebook.com/LandWorkersAlliance/posts/3870069526420042

 

[delilah]

https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-news/gene-editing-offers-huge-opportunities-for-farmers-nfu/

 

[Cheesehead]

https://www.facebook.com/LandWorkersAlliance/posts/3870069526420042

Not to those who need insulin plus not everyone can charge £40k to attend a debate or conference

*Sorry not £40k reportedly $40k

as one certainly has made a lot of money from it.

 

[delilah]

Not to those who need insulin plus not everyone can charge £40k to attend a debate or conference as one certainly has made a lot of money from it.

Well that was 13 minutes of my life I wont get back. Internet ranter rants about someone getting paid to appear at conferences.
( I don't have a view btw, started the thread to be persuaded one way or the other, not happened yet) .

 

[Cheesehead]

Well that was 13 minutes of my life I wont get back. Internet ranter rants about someone getting paid to appear at conferences.
( I don't have a view btw, started the thread to be persuaded one way or the other, not happened yet) .

From what it sounds like hers goes on usually for about an hour where the Illuminati are vying to kill millions to sell cures.

Given he his qualifications are in bio chemistry I believe he gets rather upset when people attack science while pretending to be scientists themselves while being a doctor in philosophy. His ones on corona, do tend to be more angry because they are targeted at those making money off a pandemic and in the case of David Ike made life even harder for emergency services to cope.

But the video on the glyphosate and the mouse report that he mentions is a lot more measured where two scientists pick it apart.

 

[ollie989898]

Gene editing- it's genetic modification. I think most of us realise that full blown chemical agriculture isn't sustainable- we can't invent new molecules fast enough before existing ones fail. There is scope, probably a lot of it, to change how food is produced and improve it in a lot of ways if lots of genetic modification was used but the UK consumer and regulators seem averse to it.

For the time being, best for the industry to stay GM free really and market product accordingly?

 

[turbo]

Gene editing- it's genetic modification. I think most of us realise that full blown chemical agriculture isn't sustainable- we can't invent new molecules fast enough before existing ones fail. There is scope, probably a lot of it, to change how food is produced and improve it in a lot of ways if lots of genetic modification was used but the UK consumer and regulators seem averse to it.

For the time being, best for the industry to stay GM free really and market product accordingly?

Gene editing is nothing like gm! Gene editing is just a quick way of improving a variety at a lower cost,it would take about 10 years to do what gene editing can do in 2 if we carry on with conventional breeding! .Far from letting just the big breeding companies I see it as an opportunity for the smaller ones to bring new varieties to market because the cost is reduced by a considerable amount making new varieties a cost effective way for smaller companies to make money

 

[ollie989898]

Gene editing is nothing like gm! Gene editing is just a quick way of improving a variety at a lower cost,it would take about 10 years to do what gene editing can do in 2 if we carry on with conventional breeding! .Far from letting just the big breeding companies I see it as an opportunity for the smaller ones to bring new varieties to market because the cost is reduced by a considerable amount making new varieties a cost effective way for smaller companies to make money

What 'small' seed companies? The bulk of seed breeding done worldwide is by big companies with familiar names. They have bought the varieties, the IP, the premises and methods. The cost hurdles are caused by the nature of UK seed certification processes and the fact it can be years from a variety being 'created' and actually sold as a commercial success.

It's basically a market that is aligned against small players. I wouldn't concern yourself with the plight of multinational companies, you will be handing over your hard earned for their IP no matter how it is developed.

You don't worry that they will patent their property in the same way that we saw happen with GM traits?

 

[turbo]

What 'small' seed companies? The bulk of seed breeding done worldwide is by big companies with familiar names. They have bought the varieties, the IP, the premises and methods. The cost hurdles are caused by the nature of UK seed certification processes and the fact it can be years from a variety being 'created' and actually sold as a commercial success.

It's basically a market that is aligned against small players. I wouldn't concern yourself with the plight of multinational companies, you will be handing over your hard earned for their IP no matter how it is developed.

You don't worry that they will patent their property in the same way that we saw happen with GM traits?

I can think of 3 small companies in the uk that gene editing would help,just think of the older varieties that have broken down to some disease but by adding a gene from a resistant variety would solve the problem,think of consort with a better disease profile