The problem with family farming.........

[roscoe erf]

Is family especially with the two d’s divorce and death
In most cases father builds it up two sons farm it then the third generation come along and ruin it
The more family members the bigger the problem’s
Now I’m sure well i hope there are sucsses out there I know of one but they are only 2nd generation,from my experience they all seem doomed and not by sfp brexit politicians climate change etc just by the self destructive family unit
What’s the answer discuss

 

[llamedos]

You come in with nowt, you add nowt, you go without or out with nowt.

 

[llamedos]

You come in with nowt, you add nowt, you go without or out with nowt.

 

[Feldspar]

Went to a talk the other day on bench-marking done by our accountant. Was meant to be about no-till, but the most interesting thing he said was roughly this: "I've been doing arable bench-marking for 30 years thinking about what machinery set-ups, cropping rotation, labour profiles etc cause farmers to be in the top 25% or bottom 25% of farms. Last year I came to the conclusion after all this time that the main reason farms end up in the bottom 25% is due to dysfunctional families."

Pretty amazing. We all spend so much time thinking about what combine or what tractor to buy (or what make of sheep / cattle to buy I suppose on the livestock front!), and yet by far the biggest thing that will affect the profitability of the business is whether you get on well with your parents / siblings. Probably kind of obvious to most people, but to have it put like that by someone who sees a lot of farm business, both good and bad, was quite an eye-opener.

 

[Phil P]

I’m the 4th generation on our farm and I’ve got the 5th in training (he’s got a bit to go through as he’s only 3) and I’ll admit that in my Father’s rain the business has been a little stagnant for want of a better word, it hadn’t shrunk but hand grown either.
Over the past 6 years though we’ve managed to expand our acreage increase our contracting business (muck spreading, combining, bailing etc) including some contact farming, diversifie into carovan storage and started an engineering/fabrication business.
Depending on how things go post bexit we’ll probably look to take on an apprentice on the engineering side.
I suppose I’ve be lucky in the fact that my brother has never took an interest in the farm but my grandad had to buy his brother out and my dad had to buy his brother out as they all farmed. Bit we’re still here and going strong

 

[Pan mixer]

I like that theory about dysfunctional family, I had never thought of it before.

Thinking around the least successful farms are the ones where the whole family doesn't put in maximum effort to the enterprise, one or two local families seem to spend their entire time in court arguing with relatives, they have the worst machinery and timeliness about.

 

[multi power]

The problem is the family bit

 

[franklin]

Death and divorce? Think about that for a while. Land is a valuable, but low yielding asset. If you are the son, working on the promise of "it will all (part) be yours one day" for a pittance is that likely to increase or reduce your chance of your wife leaving you? If the old man is going to live to 90 or 100, how long will you have to enjoy the asset? So the problem then is that the older, asset-owning generation dont die soon enough after stopping working! Which is fair enough as it is their asset, but the golden rule is:

NEVER WORK ON A PROMISE, ESPECIALLY A FAMILY PROMISE.

If you have a shitty work / life balance then the wheels will come off. If there are so many taking an income from it, then the wheels will come off. There is a limit to what sons / grandsons and especially wives will put up with in the name of a country lifestyle.

 

[Walterp]

"All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

(Tolstoy, 'Anna Karenina')

Or, if you prefer your wisdom in iambic pentameter:

They f**k you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f**ked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.

(Philip Larkin, 'This Be The Verse')

Or, in more down to earth fashion:

"When my old man finally dies, hopefully not this side of my retirement, I have promised myself a blow-out curry, five pints of Cobra, and a really satisfying crap on his grave."

(Walterp)

 

[Yale]

I worked on a neighbouring farm,progressive,large,however always chasing their tails.

It was a farming dynasty.

That dynasty has all but disappeared in the last 20 years.

They still own the farm however due to circumstances changing it’s all rented out now by the remaining widow and daughters choosing their own career paths.

You could say 100 years of toil just come to a halt.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Is family especially with the two d’s divorce and death
In most cases farther builds it up two sons farm it then the third generation come along and ruin it
The more family members the bigger the problem’s
Now I’m sure well i hope there are sucsses out there I know of one but they are only 2nd generation,from my experience they all seem doomed and not by sfp brexit politicians climate change etc just by the self destructive family unit
What’s the answer discuss

An old saying I've heard many times,
First generation makes it
Second generation saves it
Third generation spends it.

Only a generalisation of course but there is a point, nothing stays the same.

 

[thesilentone]

The reality is, family farming in many cases is not all it's cracked up to be, not all families I might add.

All to often, we have seen sons leave home as the ' jam tomorrow ' promise wears thin when the girlfriend wants to go out for a fancy meal, or god forbid on holiday. Waiting to inherit the Dynasty does not pay for 'now's' needs.

And, that's maybe it, 'now's ' needs have changed. The committed son being used as a slave and cheap labour have also gone, today's young are much better informed.

Are we guilty of not engaging or involving the younger generation in the decisions of tomorrow ? from some of the comments above, many don't, as they don't plan for tomorrow.

Son's get married and wives become involved, family dynamics change, in some cases a sale is needed, that's life..............

Thankfully we see both scenario's, some sons crack on, and the sky's the limit, some follow what they were learned, with a little less attention to detail.

Oh, and I should add some daughters also Pheww !

I should finish by adding, we all end up in the same place, and life can change in the blink of an eye.

 

[yellow belly]

this applies to all family owned businesses not just farming many don't make it past the first generation

 

[bumkin]

An old saying I've heard many times,
First generation makes it
Second generation saves it
Third generation spends it.

Only a generalisation of course but there is a point, nothing stays the same.

they used to say from clogs to clogs in three generations

 

[Still Farming]

All to do with Money.
Whose lining up the stars ?
Family.
Kids
Off farm work but still due share of one's that stayed at home .
Senario's played out generation after generation .
In laws-out laws - married wives etc.
Fun and games ???

 

[wasted years]

I have always thought (as the youngest of 4 children) that to be a successful farmer you need to be an only son, on an owner occupied farm with reasonable abilities to get on with your parents and you are there.
I started tenant farming by myself 15 yrs ago with no family money and I wouldn't do it again, nor would my wife and I certainly wouldn't want my children to go through what we have.

 

[thesilentone]

Habits of lifetime are hard to break...............

 

[wasted years]

Habits of lifetime are hard to break...............

Yes indeed, it's not that I don't like the job or can't do it but we are getting further and further away from what the rest of society is prepared to do for their living that frankly we look stupid.
In some ways it is too late for me because my 15 year old is keen but he may change yet of course, sometimes I think that if I called a halt to the whole thing, yes I would be unpopular but maybe it would be a kindness.

 

[Still Farming]

Good as a hobby maybe ?
Tax wise etc.etc ?
But lying on a beach better ?

 

[Nearly]

Farmers work hard to further one business.
Clever farmers work hard to set up a few businesses.

Farmers used to be able to work hard and buy a second farm for child #2 etc. You've to be bloody lucky now to do that.

Dad was an only child and he pushed all his life to increase the business and be able to leave all 3 of us a house and farmyard each.

In his mind we could argue over the rest of it but really I was the only one daft enough to farm, but I'm learning.

The little Nearlys will have a house and yard each once we've finished with it but we haven't a business any more so they have to find a career elsewhere first.

 

[GTB]

is all I'm going to say on the subject!