Charlie Gill
Member
- Location
- Kent
Which of Putin's reasons for invasion do you agree with?
The war in Ukraine...
- Thread starter Danllan
- Start date
You are wrong (again)
German certainly isn't!
Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
Just seen an interview on Times Radio with Ukrainian MP Kira Rudik.* Moving, as always, to see someone who knows her nation's very existence is on the line, speak with such desperate dignity... toward the end of the interview, she made the point that lots of countries are giving loud support to Ukraine, but not yet following through. She then advocated that these countries could make a genuine demonstration of their commitment to see Ukraine through this situation by one simple act... put the support promised in their budget.
This is a very simple thing to do, and it would be nigh on impossible for any politician - of whatever nation or party - to wriggle out of. I'm all for the UK doing this, we've squandered many billions on pointless and ever-failing foreign 'aid', whereas money going to Ukraine would offer a demonstrable and definite benefit to both them and, less altruistically, to us - and others.
I haven't crunched any numbers yet, but we could afford to guarantee many billions without adversely affecting either our country in itself, or our creditworthiness etc.; of course some will begrudge this, and others say its wrong.
I won't waste time with the Putin supporters / trolls. But, any who don't mind the idea of supporting Ukraine but just think it a bit expensive to do so can take heart from the alternative... i.e. letting Putin gain, not giving him any reason not to push waste, and then having to spend money on defence like we did before, it was 5% and more of GDP back then, well over double current spending. Ensure Ukraine wins now and Putin won't be able to do anything more, and that will save a hell of a lot in the long term.
*
This is a very simple thing to do, and it would be nigh on impossible for any politician - of whatever nation or party - to wriggle out of. I'm all for the UK doing this, we've squandered many billions on pointless and ever-failing foreign 'aid', whereas money going to Ukraine would offer a demonstrable and definite benefit to both them and, less altruistically, to us - and others.
I haven't crunched any numbers yet, but we could afford to guarantee many billions without adversely affecting either our country in itself, or our creditworthiness etc.; of course some will begrudge this, and others say its wrong.
I won't waste time with the Putin supporters / trolls. But, any who don't mind the idea of supporting Ukraine but just think it a bit expensive to do so can take heart from the alternative... i.e. letting Putin gain, not giving him any reason not to push waste, and then having to spend money on defence like we did before, it was 5% and more of GDP back then, well over double current spending. Ensure Ukraine wins now and Putin won't be able to do anything more, and that will save a hell of a lot in the long term.
*
In your view what does Ukraine winning entail, does it mean pushing all Russian troops out of Ukraine entirely including Crimea, does it entail pushing all Russian civilians out of the Dombas, Luhansk & Crimea regions if so will this be done by bombing cities similarly to the way Russia are being condemned.Just seen an interview on Times Radio with Ukrainian MP Kira Rudik.* Moving, as always, to see someone who knows her nation's very existence is on the line, speak with such desperate dignity... toward the end of the interview, she made the point that lots of countries are giving loud support to Ukraine, but not yet following through. She then advocated that these countries could make a genuine demonstration of their commitment to see Ukraine through this situation by one simple act... put the support promised in their budget.
This is a very simple thing to do, and it would be nigh on impossible for any politician - of whatever nation or party - to wriggle out of. I'm all for the UK doing this, we've squandered many billions on pointless and ever-failing foreign 'aid', whereas money going to Ukraine would offer a demonstrable and definite benefit to both them and, less altruistically, to us - and others.
I haven't crunched any numbers yet, but we could afford to guarantee many billions without adversely affecting either our country in itself, or our creditworthiness etc.; of course some will begrudge this, and others say its wrong.
I won't waste time with the Putin supporters / trolls. But, any who don't mind the idea of supporting Ukraine but just think it a bit expensive to do so can take heart from the alternative... i.e. letting Putin gain, not giving him any reason not to push waste, and then having to spend money on defence like we did before, it was 5% and more of GDP back then, well over double current spending. Ensure Ukraine wins now and Putin won't be able to do anything more, and that will save a hell of a lot in the long term.
*
So I ask what does Ukraine winning entail & how will that be achieved without a quite drastic escalation by the Russians?
Just seen an interview on Times Radio with Ukrainian MP Kira Rudik.* Moving, as always, to see someone who knows her nation's very existence is on the line, speak with such desperate dignity... toward the end of the interview, she made the point that lots of countries are giving loud support to Ukraine, but not yet following through. She then advocated that these countries could make a genuine demonstration of their commitment to see Ukraine through this situation by one simple act... put the support promised in their budget.
This is a very simple thing to do, and it would be nigh on impossible for any politician - of whatever nation or party - to wriggle out of. I'm all for the UK doing this, we've squandered many billions on pointless and ever-failing foreign 'aid', whereas money going to Ukraine would offer a demonstrable and definite benefit to both them and, less altruistically, to us - and others.
I haven't crunched any numbers yet, but we could afford to guarantee many billions without adversely affecting either our country in itself, or our creditworthiness etc.; of course some will begrudge this, and others say its wrong.
I won't waste time with the Putin supporters / trolls. But, any who don't mind the idea of supporting Ukraine but just think it a bit expensive to do so can take heart from the alternative... i.e. letting Putin gain, not giving him any reason not to push waste, and then having to spend money on defence like we did before, it was 5% and more of GDP back then, well over double current spending. Ensure Ukraine wins now and Putin won't be able to do anything more, and that will save a hell of a lot in the long term.
*
The money would be far better spent helping struggling families in the UK who are battling to put food on the table.
Ukraine is no different to Afghanistan, it is being used by America to weaken Russia from military and financial viewpoints. UK PLC pumping billions in to the Ukraine is ridiculous, the war will only stop when America wants it to. Hence the reluctance being shown by Boris, why would he waste public funds?
However, it would be lovely gesture if you sold your farm and donated the proceeds to the Ukraine war effort.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
How about supporting them by actually going there and fighting?
What happens to all the weapons governments have promised when there's no Ukrainians left to use them.
No one seems to offer any solutions, other than Putin giving up, which isn't over likely. So what happens? The money tree will fall over eventually and people will get fed up with their politicians spending money on a country that very few cared about 12 months ago, just to be seen to be doing the right thing, while their own countries could use the investment.
The war ends tomorrow then what?
This is a farming forum, so I think at least a few of the posters on here are farmers? You guys ready for all the cheap Ag produce coming the UK's way? That's the only way they'll be paying off debts for decades.
This war continuing probably helps farmers at the moment, as food's slightly harder to come by.
Personally I think world leaders are using the war to cover up the mess their own countries are in.
What happens to all the weapons governments have promised when there's no Ukrainians left to use them.
No one seems to offer any solutions, other than Putin giving up, which isn't over likely. So what happens? The money tree will fall over eventually and people will get fed up with their politicians spending money on a country that very few cared about 12 months ago, just to be seen to be doing the right thing, while their own countries could use the investment.
The war ends tomorrow then what?
This is a farming forum, so I think at least a few of the posters on here are farmers? You guys ready for all the cheap Ag produce coming the UK's way? That's the only way they'll be paying off debts for decades.
This war continuing probably helps farmers at the moment, as food's slightly harder to come by.
Personally I think world leaders are using the war to cover up the mess their own countries are in.
Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
What a brilliant and truly unpredictable response, almost reaching the dizzy heights of a sixth-form sociologist... and what happens when Ukraine falls and Putin goes for Estonia, and then Poland, and then Germany and then France and then...?
Tell you what, you sell all you've got and then give the proceeds to the benefit scum and imported millions from Somalia, Bangladesh etc. and I'll see how well that goes. If it works really well I'll follow your lead.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
Back in February countries like America wouldn't even give the vague hint of support from their troops if Putin got carried away. It's always been a, no we're not coming to help, here's some toys. Putin knows if he keeps it in Ukraine, its between the two countries.
All these Countries are in NATO so that would mean war with NATO, so he won't do that, fairly simpleWhat a brilliant and truly unpredictable response, almost reaching the dizzy heights of a sixth-form sociologist... and what happens when Ukraine falls and Putin goes for Estonia, and then Poland, and then Germany and then France and then...?
Tell you what, you sell all you've got and then give the proceeds to the benefit scum and imported millions from Somalia, Bangladesh etc. and I'll see how well that goes. If it works really well I'll follow your lead.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
What makes you think he will?What a brilliant and truly unpredictable response, almost reaching the dizzy heights of a sixth-form sociologist... and what happens when Ukraine falls and Putin goes for Estonia, and then Poland, and then Germany and then France and then...?
Tell you what, you sell all you've got and then give the proceeds to the benefit scum and imported millions from Somalia, Bangladesh etc. and I'll see how well that goes. If it works really well I'll follow your lead.
Most leaders obviously don't, if they did they'd be kicking his arse back over the border by now but they're not. Why, if he's so dangerous?
If you really believe Putin would attack a NATO country then you really are as demented as I thought you were!!What a brilliant and truly unpredictable response, almost reaching the dizzy heights of a sixth-form sociologist... and what happens when Ukraine falls and Putin goes for Estonia, and then Poland, and then Germany and then France and then...?
Tell you what, you sell all you've got and then give the proceeds to the benefit scum and imported millions from Somalia, Bangladesh etc. and I'll see how well that goes. If it works really well I'll follow your lead.
Today Ukraine basically lost the whole Luhansk Region.
Russia took the Oil Refinery west of Lysychansk, crossed the Seversky Donetsk in the North.
They have to pull back or they will get encircled.
Their Army is bled white, should have withdrawn to Slaviansk Kramatorsk for a better defendable position instead of pouring in more and more forces into that Bottleneck.
Now a large part of their best units is gone and the replacement had little to none training and its Battle Readiness isn't good for that reason.
Looks pretty grim tbh, but some people still believe Ukraine turns the tide with some Pieces of Hardware from the west when Russia fires 100k Artillery shells on their best day.
Russia took the Oil Refinery west of Lysychansk, crossed the Seversky Donetsk in the North.
They have to pull back or they will get encircled.
Their Army is bled white, should have withdrawn to Slaviansk Kramatorsk for a better defendable position instead of pouring in more and more forces into that Bottleneck.
Now a large part of their best units is gone and the replacement had little to none training and its Battle Readiness isn't good for that reason.
Looks pretty grim tbh, but some people still believe Ukraine turns the tide with some Pieces of Hardware from the west when Russia fires 100k Artillery shells on their best day.
Devil's advocate
Member
- Location
- Posh side of Barnsley
Its the Russian leader that is demented & with a brain washed population in Russia. The West has a problem & it is trying its best.
Devil's advocate
Member
- Location
- Posh side of Barnsley
You make a good case for more weapons for Ukraine. Russia has gone too far, much too far.
What a brilliant and truly unpredictable response, almost reaching the dizzy heights of a sixth-form sociologist... and what happens when Ukraine falls and Putin goes for Estonia, and then Poland, and then Germany and then France and then...?
Tell you what, you sell all you've got and then give the proceeds to the benefit scum and imported millions from Somalia, Bangladesh etc. and I'll see how well that goes. If it works really well I'll follow your lead.
I have come back from holiday last week, I was with thousands of Polish, Ukrainian and Russian tourists, in all honesty everyone I spoke to supported Putin. You need to get out into the real world and stop digesting the rubbish the media feed us.
With regards to Somalia etc, we have extracted billions from those countries and pay maybe 1% of that back in foreign aid, nothing is free in life.
You're not prepared to sell your own property and help the Ukrainian war effort, or send your own children to the front line to fight, yet expect the most needy in our society to go to war and pay for Ukrainian war?
Take it you will be going to stop Russia as you feel so strongly or is it another case of keyboard battles?
My 11 year old son has a fabulous set of headphones for his PlayStation would highly recommend a pair if you decide to join the keyboard war effort
To what end?
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
You think they're trying their best? In what way?
If he's that big of a threat, why aren't we doing more actual fighting?
I'm sure there's probably some SF strikes here and there, that can be credited to the Ukraine but do you really think promising more and more money and equipment (to what was and probably still is a corrupt country) is "trying its best"?
I think getting shut of Biden and having someone with some balls would be a better start, if Putin is the danger everyone claims.
Lots of polish/Estonian/ chech republic/Lithuanian and other foreign workers up here and I’ve never heard one good word for putin
Although there’s a couple on here seem to love their Russian comrades