This isn't going to end well!

[Danllan]

In the long term,how are Israel gonna prevent the same happening without negotiations with hamas??



It's isolated settlements in/near Gaza are no longer viable without a massive security presence,which will them financially untenable......all these war crimes will only serve to strengthen the resolve of those left behind IMO

Can't and won't argue for Israel's illegal and unsustainable settlements; but can and will state the obvious, which is that there is nothing Israel can do that will satisfy Hamas, other than cease to exist.

Self-evidently that is not an option any Israeli can or will go for. So the alternative is to destroy Hamas as it stands, ensure it cannot ever achieve the same 'success' again, and then attempt to stabilise the situation with moderate Palestinians.

 

[BrianV]

Course they did, who is the terrorists now, very difficult to distinguish.

Israeli official says 'around 100 fighter jets' bombarded Gaza overnight​

Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images

Smoke rises from Gaza amid Israel's devastating bombardmentImage caption: Smoke rises from Gaza amid Israel's devastating bombardment
"Around a hundred fighter jets" were used in Israel's bombardment of the Gaza Strip overnight that destroyed hundreds of Hamas targets, according to the head of Israel's Air Force Operations Brigadier General Gilad Keinan.
In a post on X, Israeli forces quoted Keinan as saying that the air force's "goal is clear - to destroy everything touched by the hand of Hamas".

Pretty much says it all doesn't it!

 

[BrianV]

What few supporters the Tories still had are melting away fast,

7

UK foreign secretary says calls for ceasefire 'aren't going to help the situation'​

BBCCopyright: BBC

UK Foreign Secretary James Cleverly says that calls for a ceasefire “aren’t going to help the situation”.
"Of course we want to see Israel safe, peaceful and secure,” he says in an interview, but there is no indication from Hamas that they would accept or abide by a ceasefire.
Cleverly reiterates UK support for Israel and the importance of adhering to international law. He says that it is important to remember that it was Hamas who initiated this round of fighting with their brutal attack on 7 October.
He refrains from saying there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and pins the blame for the situation on Hamas. “We want to alleviate that suffering,” he says, which is why the UK has increased its commitment to humanitarian aid to the Palestinians.
Cleverly concludes by warning protesters in the UK to be mindful of misinformation and manipulation, and says that they should be wary of a “small minority” who have more "negative aims”.

 

[Setanta_]

Can't and won't argue for Israel's illegal and unsustainable settlements; but can and will state the obvious, which is that there is nothing Israel can do that will satisfy Hamas, other than cease to exist.

Self-evidently that is not an option any Israeli can or will go for. So the alternative is to destroy Hamas as it stands, ensure it cannot ever achieve the same 'success' again, and then attempt to stabilise the situation with moderate Palestinians.

They simply aren't going to be able to destroy hamas,it's not credible to believe so

Hamas can simply open it's ranks and recruit from a heavily tramuatised population who've spent weeks being ethnic cleansed and have had no viable defence or anyone else to speak out or up for em......only going forward,these recruits won't have anything to live for,and can pushed into suicide attacks

 

[Setanta_]

Strange then the Israeli's said move to Southern Gaza then promptly bombed there

Realistically Israel is attempting to ethic cleanse the Gaza strip and force it's citizens into the previously captured siani region

Egypt kinda f**ked their plans by closing the border

 

[BrianV]

Realistically Israel is attempting to ethic cleanse the Gaza strip and force it's citizens into the previously captured siani region

Egypt kinda f**ked their plans by closing the border

Does anyone truly believe Israel would do this ethnic cleansing without American backing!

 

[Slick]

What few supporters the Tories still had are melting away fast,

7

UK foreign secretary says calls for ceasefire 'aren't going to help the situation'​

View attachment 1145030BBCCopyright: BBCView attachment 1145029
UK Foreign Secretary James Cleverly says that calls for a ceasefire “aren’t going to help the situation”.
"Of course we want to see Israel safe, peaceful and secure,” he says in an interview, but there is no indication from Hamas that they would accept or abide by a ceasefire.
Cleverly reiterates UK support for Israel and the importance of adhering to international law. He says that it is important to remember that it was Hamas who initiated this round of fighting with their brutal attack on 7 October.
He refrains from saying there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and pins the blame for the situation on Hamas. “We want to alleviate that suffering,” he says, which is why the UK has increased its commitment to humanitarian aid to the Palestinians.
Cleverly concludes by warning protesters in the UK to be mindful of misinformation and manipulation, and says that they should be wary of a “small minority” who have more "negative aims”.

Labour voters tend to think Keir Starmer has badly handled Labour’s response to Gaza crisis | YouGov

Although the public doesn’t think much better of Rishi Sunak’s approach

yougov.co.uk

 

[BrianV]

Labour voters tend to think Keir Starmer has badly handled Labour’s response to Gaza crisis | YouGov

Although the public doesn’t think much better of Rishi Sunak’s approach

yougov.co.uk

Politicians are prats in all parties! Got to give it to Andy Burnham the leader that Labour should have instead of that dodgy two faced Starmer.

 

[Lowland1]

Does anyone truly believe Israel would do this ethnic cleansing without American backing!

Yes. I know lot’s of Israelis. You can always tell an Israeli… but you can’t tell them much. America is holding them back otherwise they’d have already levelled Gaza

 

[Danllan]

They simply aren't going to be able to destroy hamas,it's not credible to believe so

Hamas can simply open it's ranks and recruit from a heavily tramuatised population who've spent weeks being ethnic cleansed and have had no viable defence or anyone else to speak out or up for em......only going forward,these recruits won't have anything to live for,and can pushed into suicide attacks

Of course not, because it's just an 'idea' at base; which is why I wrote that they will '...destroy Hamas as it stands...', in the same way that the Allies did the Nazis. Germany / the Germans weren't wiped from the face of the Earth, and even now there are Nazi sympathisers to be found; but as a functioning and effective thing, Nazism was neutralised.

So, once again, I ask a simple question, with no hidden agenda or trickery in it: what can Israel realistically do now in the current situation that will, effectively, guarantee the safety of its people? Don't come back and tell me they should have done this or it would be better now if they had done that; just tell me what they can do now that will remove all major* threats to the Israeli people.

Because if Israel doesn't remove all potential for Hamas to use Gaza as an operating base, arsenal etc. etc.., Hamas will try to repeat what happened on Oct. 7th again, and everyone knows this is true.


*Clearly lone-wolf attacks, using knives or plain vehicles can never be stopped completely, anywhere; but we are discussing major attacks and missile strikes and not those of individuals.

 

[ollie989898]

Realistically Israel is attempting to ethic cleanse the Gaza strip and force it's citizens into the previously captured siani region

Egypt kinda f**ked their plans by closing the border

If they have any sense Egypt will not become involved in any way. They have good diplomatic links with the West and won't want the security concerns spilling over their borders. It wasn't many years ago terrorists killed tourists on the beach in Tunisia. Egypt has a big tourist trade to protect.

 

[Setanta_]

Of course not, because it's just an 'idea' at base; which is why I wrote that they will '...destroy Hamas as it stands...', in the same way that the Allies did the Nazis. Germany / the Germans weren't wiped from the face of the Earth, and even now there are Nazi sympathisers to be found; but as a functioning and effective thing, Nazism was neutralised.

So, once again, I ask a simple question, with no hidden agenda or trickery in it: what can Israel realistically do now in the current situation that will, effectively, guarantee the safety of its people? Don't come back and tell me they should have done this or it would be better now if they had done that; just tell me what they can do now that will remove all major* threats to the Israeli people.

Because if Israel doesn't remove all potential for Hamas to use Gaza as an operating base, arsenal etc. etc.., Hamas will try to repeat what happened on Oct. 7th again, and everyone knows this is true.


*Clearly lone-wolf attacks, using knives or plain vehicles can never be stopped completely, anywhere; but we are discussing major attacks and missile strikes and not those of individuals.

Negociate peace and treat the Palestinians as equals to begin with,and work from there,but after decades of dehumanising them,this may be an impossible sell to the Israeli public...

.ethic cleansing isn't the solution here anyway,despite how much the yanks and EU cheer it on...the notion this is going to put a stop to hamas or the Palestinian efforts is beyond comprehension in its lack of understanding of human nature.... Israel has effectively gauramteed another 20 years of conflict,and likely adds a year for everyday it bombs gaza



Nazi leaders were rounded up and faced trial in neuremberg,the hamas leaders are mostly exiled to Qatar,the comparison with the end of WW2 in light of this,is at best somewhere between misinformed and conceited....given Israel deosnt undertake any attacks on Qatar or attempt to target hamas leadership there...or there isnt any realistic prospect of a iron curtain communist type effect to root out low level hamas members over a longer period......as it stands now,without maintaining a massive standing army,south Israel and it's settlements are no longer viable as communities,not that'll it matter to nethanyu, Israeli politicians rarely if never go outside it's main cities


(in deed it's known hamas had to get folks to call up Israeli army and police after overwhelming it's initial defensive positions,as they wished to take soldiers hostages....such was the deficit of security forces there)

 

[yoki]

What few supporters the Tories still had are melting away fast,

7

UK foreign secretary says calls for ceasefire 'aren't going to help the situation'​

View attachment 1145030BBCCopyright: BBCView attachment 1145029
UK Foreign Secretary James Cleverly says that calls for a ceasefire “aren’t going to help the situation”.
"Of course we want to see Israel safe, peaceful and secure,” he says in an interview, but there is no indication from Hamas that they would accept or abide by a ceasefire.
Cleverly reiterates UK support for Israel and the importance of adhering to international law. He says that it is important to remember that it was Hamas who initiated this round of fighting with their brutal attack on 7 October.
He refrains from saying there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and pins the blame for the situation on Hamas. “We want to alleviate that suffering,” he says, which is why the UK has increased its commitment to humanitarian aid to the Palestinians.
Cleverly concludes by warning protesters in the UK to be mindful of misinformation and manipulation, and says that they should be wary of a “small minority” who have more "negative aims”.

I don't think it's any worse than those who supported Israel retaliating to any degree they saw fit at the start, but are starting to backtrack on that once it starts getting proper nasty.

Anyone who doesn't support Israel doing what they're doing now should have had the balls to say so right from the beginning.

 

[BrianV]

I don't think it's any worse than those who supported Israel retaliating to any degree they saw fit at the start, but are starting to backtrack on that once it starts getting proper nasty.

Anyone who doesn't support Israel doing what they're doing now should have had the balls to say so right from the beginning.

Suggest you should have listened to question time on the radio, pro gov line speakers in serious danger of being completely ignored by the audience

 

[yoki]

Suggest you should have listened to question time on the radio, pro gov line speakers in serious danger of being completely ignored by the audience

So you think it's perfectly understandable for those who gave Israel the green light at the start, but are now calling for restraint or even a ceasefire?

Strikes me it's a few weeks too late for that, if that's what they think is best then they should have been calling for it from the start.

 

[Danllan]

Negociate peace and treat the Palestinians as equals to begin with,and work from there,but after decades of dehumanising them,this may be an impossible sell to the Israeli public...

Let's go through your post section by section...

You have told us that Hamas are always going to be around... how can Israel possibly 'negotiate' with an organisation that's sole reason for being and only red-line is the complete destruction and the deaths of Israel and its Jewish population?

 

[caveman]

Negociate peace and treat the Palestinians as equals to begin with,and work from there,but after decades of dehumanising them,this may be an impossible sell to the Israeli public...

.ethic cleansing isn't the solution here anyway,despite how much the yanks and EU cheer it on...the notion this is going to put a stop to hamas or the Palestinian efforts is beyond comprehension in its lack of understanding of human nature.... Israel has effectively gauramteed another 20 years of conflict,and likely adds a year for everyday it bombs gaza



Nazi leaders were rounded up and faced trial in neuremberg,the hamas leaders are mostly exiled to Qatar,the comparison with the end of WW2 in light of this,is at best somewhere between misinformed and conceited....given Israel deosnt undertake any attacks on Qatar or attempt to target hamas leadership there...or there isnt any realistic prospect of a iron curtain communist type effect to root out low level hamas members over a longer period......as it stands now,without maintaining a massive standing army,south Israel and it's settlements are no longer viable as communities,not that'll it matter to nethanyu, Israeli politicians rarely if never go outside it's main cities


(in deed it's known hamas had to get folks to call up Israeli army and police after overwhelming it's initial defensive positions,as they wished to take soldiers hostages....such was the deficit of security forces there)

Ethic cleansing is exactly what's required.

 

[robs1]

Politicians are prats in all parties! Got to give it to Andy Burnham the leader that Labour should have instead of that dodgy two faced Starmer.

Burnham is a slim ball as much as any politician

 

[Muck Spreader]

Why would Putin use nuclear weapons against Israel. They’ve been big mates up until recently.

As you say Netanyahu and Putin have and still are big mates. Israel refused to impose sanctions or send military aid to Ukraine, but then over 80,000 Israelis live in Moscow alone.

 

[Lowland1]

Let's go through your post section by section...

You have told us that Hamas are always going to be around... how can Israel possibly 'negotiate' with an organisation that's sole reason for being and only red-line is the complete destruction and the deaths of Israel and its Jewish population?

Same way as the South Africans negotiated with the ANC. I’d say Hamas knows it has zero chance of destroying Israel in normal circumstances however if it can draw others in the region in then it has more chance. Israel has to pull back and force negotiations. Carrying on as it is now will cause it to lose support from it’s allies and embolden it’s many enemies. It’s shown it’s got lots of military might now it has to use some brains.