Tillage is fine

[warksfarmer]

I am now thinking tillage is fine for the soils and its just rotation that's the answer. A mix of winter and spring crops with some organic matter spread is all we need to keep input levels realistic.

Unless your on the lightest soil then DD is risky year in year out. I'm in on the idea of reduced soil movement at seeding time but I want to lift the soils prior to seeding. One Pass drills are not the answer for me but maybe a 10 inch deep lift after the combine and muck being applied with as little disturbance as possible. Spray off then in with a min disturbance disc drill a few weeks later?

I have the opportunity to try this this next year as I have 200ac coming out of sbarley, ww going in with swheat. Straws been removed in dry conditions. I've just sprayed them as they were greening with ryegrass. Compost going on in the next 3 weeks. Then I am thinking of reducing a 3m 7leg shakerator to 5 legs and going through with that at 10 inches. its got a big heavy packer on it but i could tow either a set of rolls or a DD press behind it as well. Then leave and spray as required up to March before seeding with a vaderstad with all front attachments lifted so all we are doing is slotting the seed in? Then roll.

Opinions?

 

[SilliamWhale]

This is the direct drilling section

 

[York]

Wonder how this will cope with economics. Didn't I hear some time ago out of your writing that spring crops don't pay? Can't see changed economics on Beans and other spring crops.
What has changed to change your thinking? Only one year with low prices?
York-Th.

 

[Clive]

If rotation is the answer why grow a cereal crop after a cereal crop ?

Dd / zero till works on soils far heavier and harder to work than yours - I have seen it on several farms now. But as you say yourself rotation is the answer (plus attitude, agronomy, nutrition, understanding of soil and a fair bit of skill and forethought of course)

Equally there is nothing wrong with tillage either - it works and suits most and even has a place in some situations in the zero till farmers system

 

[Baling Hay]

I am now thinking tillage is fine for the soils and its just rotation that's the answer. A mix of winter and spring crops with some organic matter spread is all we need to keep input levels realistic.

Unless your on the lightest soil then DD is risky year in year out. I'm in on the idea of reduced soil movement at seeding time but I want to lift the soils prior to seeding. One Pass drills are not the answer for me but maybe a 10 inch deep lift after the combine and muck being applied with as little disturbance as possible. Spray off then in with a min disturbance disc drill a few weeks later?

I have the opportunity to try this this next year as I have 200ac coming out of sbarley, ww going in with swheat. Straws been removed in dry conditions. I've just sprayed them as they were greening with ryegrass. Compost going on in the next 3 weeks. Then I am thinking of reducing a 3m 7leg shakerator to 5 legs and going through with that at 10 inches. its got a big heavy packer on it but i could tow either a set of rolls or a DD press behind it as well. Then leave and spray as required up to March before seeding with a vaderstad with all front attachments lifted so all we are doing is slotting the seed in? Then roll.

Opinions?

Just buy a plough and do it right!

 

[SilliamWhale]

Seriously Lee I think a decent direct drill and that extra tool if you need it is enough.

The best low disturbance subsoiler I've seen is the sumo style design. I've tried various things with a shakerator this summer and its just not right.

Go and visit a few boys doing it on some heavier land , spend an afternoon with them (Simon Cowell and Simon Chiles, John Cherry for example) and have a crack at choosing a drill. The Vaddy will never do a decent DD job. I agree about keeping a couple of tillage implements about for as and when.

 

[York]

Seriously Lee I think a decent direct drill and that extra tool if you need it is enough.

The best low disturbance subsoiler I've seen is the sumo style design. I've tried various things with a shakerator this summer and its just not right.

Go and visit a few boys doing it on some heavier land , spend an afternoon with them (Simon Cowell and Simon Chiles, John Cherry for example) and have a crack at choosing a drill. The Vaddy will never do a decent DD job. I agree about keeping a couple of tillage implements about for as and when.

Sorry, wasn't it the starter of this thread which did a couple of years give us long discussions that his old written off tractor, we call this "Yard lady" was tooo costly to keep (apperently no repairs needed) and he would go just for rentals? And now this gentleman is telling us that we need a quiver of tillage tools & drills to be able to make it right?
I'm just puzzled. But willing to learn.
York-Th.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Are you talking about me or Lee?

 

[Elmsted]

So then now we have one of the founder members of direct drilling in another place writing that tillage is fine & it is just rotation. Then for some time advocates no till strip till type planters. As with regard to shakerator all should now be already turned in to cars via the scrap yard. As to leastsurface disturbance & effective subsoiling. it comes from Silsoe.

As I only use a vaddy for a few thousand hectares a year in my rotation and climate in a DD format with no slopes, stones or spuds. Fair enough. That we choose in a new project to get kit from Canada fair enough. There is never a one size fits all. BUT THERE IS A CONCEPT OF MINIMUM DISTURBANCE TO ESTABLISH THE NEXT CROP. We all could debate this ad-infinitum some see agronomic motives others see economic motives etc, etc.

And frankly matters not a toss if sometimes we use a plough or stone seperator or strip till or tine drill, or disc drill.

What is in my view important is that we remain open to challenging established thinking. For example inject fertiliser N reservoirs etc. or grow things with less agromechimcal supply side chain. etc. It the motive is to question.

 

[Clive]

So then now we have one of the founder members of direct drilling in another place writing that tillage is fine & it is just rotation. T.

no - don't misquote me, it certainly is NOT just rotation but it is a big and fundamental part of it

I aim to zero-til every acre but i'm not so blinkered to not use tillage or even a plough in the right situation if required

 

[Elmsted]

no - don't misquote me, it certainly is NOT just rotation but it is a big and fundamental part of it

I aim to zero-til every acre but i'm not so blinkered to not use tillage or even a plough in the right situation if required

I am not if you pay attention missquoting you whom had nothing to do with another forum's Direct drilling forum.

Rotation is something I have posted of since the inception of the other forum and here.

 

[York]

Are you talking about me or Lee?

Will,

we have a saying over here: "Who is able to read and on top of this is able to understand what he reads is definitely in a advantageous position, or like in tennis "Advantage".

York-Th.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Will,

we have a saying over here: "Who is able to read and on top of this is able to understand what he reads is definitely in a advantageous position, or like in tennis "Advantage".

York-Th.

I got a saying here "telling the truth is different from talking sh!t".

 

[combineguy]

Hi

Interesting

Personally I think that DD can work all year round, but you need to be actively involved and passionate about DD as it requires more patience and stick ability than tillage. You need to monitor your soil, get your nutrients right, get drainage sorted out, feed your beneficials and drill at the right time, even though your neighbours might think your crazy for drilling later than them

 

[York]

Hi

Interesting

Personally I think that DD can work all year round, but you need to be actively involved and passionate about DD as it requires more patience and stick ability than tillage. You need to monitor your soil, get your nutrients right, get drainage sorted out, feed your beneficials and drill at the right time, even though your neighbours might think your crazy for drilling later than them

As so often it comes down to the basics. And for No till Rolf Derpsch has got a very true gui9de, the "10 steps to No tillage".
Unfortunately tooo often people begin with a No Till drill, which is on this 10 steps the step no. 7.
http://www.rolf-derpsch.com/steps.pdf top of page 2

Top ten critical factors for no-tillage adoption
1. Improve your knowledge about the system, especially in weed control and plan for the
change to permanent no-tillage at least 1 year in advance
2. Analyze your soil (aim for a balanced nutrient and pH status)
3. Avoid soils with poor drainage
4. Level the soil surface
5. Eliminate soil compaction issues before starting no-till
6. Produce the largest possible amount of mulch cover
7. Buy a no-till seeding machine
8. Start on 10 percent of your farm
9. Use crop rotation and green manure cover crops
10. Be prepared to learn constantly and watch for new developments.​

York-Th.