Time to give up?

[drumeldry]

Simplify the farm and bin the worker, no way 300 acre is going to support you a worker and rent.

Bin the whole farming thing its a mugs game get a 9 to 5 job,

 

[GTB]

I agree with above. Simplify the system, get rid of the employee and use contractors for machinery work rather than buy your own kit.

 

[DRC]

You can't afford an employee on a 300 acre tenanted place, unless your very intensive with poultry or the like.

 

[Grassman]

I am in a similar position with a farm that is not making any money. And now one landlord is doubling the rent!
I am giving up on trying to farm full time and will do other things.. You can only bang your head against the wall for so long!
I struggle with too much work to do on the farm which stops me doing other work that actually pays. So for me get rid of a chunk of land to free up time and expense.

 

[oldoaktree]

I am in a similar position with a farm that is not making any money. And now one landlord is doubling the rent!
I am giving up on trying to farm full time and will do other things.. You can only bang your head against the wall for so long!
I struggle with too much work to do on the farm which stops me doing other work that actually pays. So for me get rid of a chunk of land to free up time and expense.

Snap ! Couldn't have put it better myself

 

[Iron150]

Are you working on the farm full time?

 

[Bones]

better going for a smaller hobby farm , and get a 9 to 5 , all farming is just a hobby just of different sizes

 

[IH 684]

You need to buy a smaller place. By renting your only improving someone else's assists. I am not having a dig at people who rent. But you do have a better mindset if your improving your own place.

 

[Pasty]

Buy the smaller place. Claim all the payments and run something small scale but more intensive like turkeys / geese for Xmas etc. Or do a bit of glamping or something if it's pretty.

 

[Cowabunga]

Ive put so much time and money in I don't want to go, I love where we live, what we do, but it looks like I'm going to be subsiding it over the next year(s).

I couldn't buy outright, would need a mortages and I'm only getting older which is a big part of the dilemma.

As a tenant I've always made sure I'm covered if things go wrong. If things were good and profits able to reinvest in farm and future I wouldn't give it a second thought but that just not the case.

The only way to view this 'business' is like a hobby, supported by your main business when needed. It is purely up to you whether you think this worth the capital drain when the farm is unprofitable and whether you can perhaps offset some of the loss against your other business, which should be very profitable before you consider doing so in my opinion.

 

[Cowabunga]

Sorry just got back in, Mixed about 300 Ac, I don't want to give the area as we also have a worker. As a few have suggested I intend to speak to the LL are see if we can do anything, I don't really know what demand would be like today. One option might be to let some land go and scale back but that would increase some fixed costs. A lot of my gear is also wearing out and I think at a point where I need to invest again in machinery. Could do sheep only or drop the bit of arable but it will won't pay at that. Another option is to try and buy the house, yard and some land around it, not sure if the LL will break it up though to avoid moving. I don't think I would feel so bad making a loss if we were buying an asset.

With 300 acres, which is a large farm in my area, if you can't pay a worker off that business and leave some profit, give it up or ask yourself seriously "why am I doing this".

 

[Cowabunga]

You can't afford an employee on a 300 acre tenanted place, unless your very intensive with poultry or the like.

That is absolutely ridiculous. He/she presumably isn't taking much out of the farm for themselves, so if a 300 acre farm can't support a worker or even a farming family and worker in this day and age, the business of farming is doomed for the now. Its should be able to pay a reasonable rent and provide work and a living to two families, but it all depends on the land and management of the business.

Management is everything, especially when times are tough.

 

[DRC]

That is absolutely ridiculous. He/she presumably isn't taking much out of the farm for themselves, so if a 300 acre farm can't support a worker or even a farming family and worker in this day and age, the business of farming is doomed for the now. Its should be able to pay a reasonable rent and provide work and a living to two families, but it all depends on the land and management of the business.

Management is everything, especially when times are tough.[/
Turn it on its head. If your running an efficient place with modern machinery, what do you find for an employee to do all day, on a mixed 300 acre farm?
Much more efficient to use contractors occasionally than have a man all year round, unless it's got an intensive enterprise( which I said in my post)

 

[DRC]

If your running an efficient, well managed farm, then what would you find for a man to do all day on 300 acre.
Tenanted farms of that size can't be paying three wages, the landlord, workman and yourself, unless there's an intensive enterprise such as pigs or poultry.
Can't think of anyone on our estate , employing anyone other than family members.

 

[caveman]

Seems as if your hankering after a change yourself.
Keep your man on, on ag wages, to keep the farm running over and get a position on city salary for yourself.
Or pimp your man out to the city if he is good enough!!!!

 

[newentrant70]

Thanks all its helpful to get some independent opinions. I need a worker as I work away a lot and it's too much if there is a problem for my family to be able to deal with it. 300acre arable would be a lot easier. They are not on full time wages and we take very little out (far more in over the years). I need the area payment and we could grass the rest down but its a heck of a lot of grass and it's not all suitable as arable with little in it once rent/contractors/inputs paid. We already use contractors for the bulk of the work. I do what I can in weekends, time off. The place also needs investment and it's really muddle along with what we have or try and expand it/go intensive as people have suggested - in which case I would need to go full time.

It was intention to take it on full time 7 years ago but as many other have said, am earning far more off farm. I very nearly did 3 year ago when things were on the up and I'm glad i didn't.

We had a few big repairs, buildings needing repair etc and I can't see us making anything this year and more than likely a decent five figure loss and still no idea went the SFP will be or when we will get it. If we sold up we would release a fair chunk of capital - but that would be it for ever going full time other than a retirement few acres.

I'm mindful to stick it out another year and see what happens. We are on a FBT and would need LL agreement to leave early and would lose improvements we have made. I've also got a pending rent review.

 

[Cowabunga]

We had a few big repairs, buildings needing repair etc and I can't see us making anything this year and more than likely a decent five figure loss and still no idea went the SFP will be or when we will get it. If we sold up we would release a fair chunk of capital - but that would be it for ever going full time other than a retirement few acres.

I'm mindful to stick it out another year and see what happens. We are on a FBT and would need LL agreement to leave early and would lose improvements we have made. I've also got a pending rent review.

A five figure loss!

Take a grip on the business quickly. That is ridiculous. If the cost of getting out of your FBT is less than a year's loss, get out of it. But not before your pending rent review, during which you should make your position very clear so that either a rent reduction was negotiated or your options to get out of a loss making business.
I would never contemplate running a loss making business for more than a year and am uncomfortable with a negative cash flow trend in a business that sweats its assets with other investments and/or capital repayments. The net worth is not something that should be sacrificed and your capital from other businesses should be retained separately unless you can really afford to lose it.

 

[czechmate]

A five figure loss!

Take a grip on the business quickly. That is ridiculous. If the cost of getting out of your FBT is less than a year's loss, get out of it. But not before your pending rent review, during which you should make your position very clear so that either a rent reduction was negotiated or your options to get out of a loss making business.
I would never contemplate running a loss making business for more than a year and am uncomfortable with a negative cash flow trend in a business that sweats its assets with other investments and/or capital repayments. The net worth is not something that should be sacrificed and your capital from other businesses should be retained separately unless you can really afford to lose it.

To rent much of a house would be "five figures"

 

[Drillman]

Thanks all its helpful to get some independent opinions. I need a worker as I work away a lot and it's too much if there is a problem for my family to be able to deal with it. 300acre arable would be a lot easier. They are not on full time wages and we take very little out (far more in over the years). I need the area payment and we could grass the rest down but its a heck of a lot of grass and it's not all suitable as arable with little in it once rent/contractors/inputs paid. We already use contractors for the bulk of the work. I do what I can in weekends, time off. The place also needs investment and it's really muddle along with what we have or try and expand it/go intensive as people have suggested - in which case I would need to go full time.

It was intention to take it on full time 7 years ago but as many other have said, am earning far more off farm. I very nearly did 3 year ago when things were on the up and I'm glad i didn't.

We had a few big repairs, buildings needing repair etc and I can't see us making anything this year and more than likely a decent five figure loss and still no idea went the SFP will be or when we will get it. If we sold up we would release a fair chunk of capital - but that would be it for ever going full time other than a retirement few acres.

I'm mindful to stick it out another year and see what happens. We are on a FBT and would need LL agreement to leave early and would lose improvements we have made. I've also got a pending rent review.

not being funny, but if you have a man employed but contractors do the bulk of the work what does the man do all day???

I run just over 300 acres on mostly on my own doing arable, suckler cows and an element of contracting. only jobs I get contracted in are combining, hedge cutting (not worth having my own in either case) and mowing ( mower man is a friend who helps with wrapping and other silage related contract jobs)

 

[czechmate]

not being funny, but if you have a man employed but contractors do the bulk of the work what does the man do all day???

I run just over 300 acres on mostly on my own doing arable, suckler cows and an element of contracting. only jobs I get contracted in are combining, hedge cutting (not worth having my own in either case) and mowing ( mower man is a friend who helps with wrapping and other silage related contract jobs)

And a few big repairs?