Tine drill - wide & slow?

[Brisel]

I'm currently looking at tine drill options as our strip till system is making our blackgrass problems worse - to the point that blackgrass levels are dictating cropping & cultivation policy. What I need is a tine drill that can cope with brashy stone, and be capable of sowing into unmoved stubble, lightly cultivated (Carrier), deep cultivated (Topdown) and ploughed/worked down. Soil types vary from light brash to clay. Field sizes are small, which favours a mounted drill. 250 and 290 hp available. Circa 2000 acres/year so it needs to be 6m+ wide. The current favourites are the Horsch Sprinter, Kuhn Megant and Weaving Sabre. The FETF grant distorts the market here, which makes a second hand machine uncompetitive, so the logical choice is a new grant eligible machine for 2025, assuming the ere will be another grant window.

Sprinter - long, heavy but lots of aftermarket tine options Bourgault/Metcalfe/Dutch. Can you vary row spacing much?
Megant - the newer design with 12mm points. Is it a no till drill??? The cheapest and lightest weight option here, if it will withstand the punishment of no till.
Sabre Tine - certainly a no till drill & capable of running in cultivated ground too. Heavy and probably new only.

Am I better with an 8m machine pulled at a forward speed 1/3 less than the equivalent 6m? The main idea is to disturb less soil at the point of drilling which should mean less blackgrass emerging in the crop. Stale seedbeds, delayed drilling, spring cropping, higher seed rates and all the other tools for blackgrass control are being deployed, though rotational ploughing is the next step. The Sabre Tine has the possibility of wider row spacing which could reduce power requirement. 16.6cm, 20 cm or 25 cm. Are there wider row spacing options for the Sprinter & Megant?

Will I be able to pull an 8m Sprinter with a 7290R 290hp tractor? The land is gently undulating and it's not what you'd call seriously heavy clay. The Megant is 6m only & I've little doubt power would be a problem here.

 

[redsloe]

Not sure what you have now, you mentioned strip till. What about adding a twin tine kit and/or front disc? The strip till drill can be extremely versatile and could still benefit soils if soil compaction ever rears its ugly head in the future through its leading tine.

 

[Brisel]

Not sure what you have now, you mentioned strip till. What about adding a twin tine kit and/or front disc? The strip till drill can be extremely versatile and could still benefit soils if soil compaction ever rears its ugly head in the future through its leading tine.

Mzuri iPass. 25 cm rows. 12mm leading leg with a wing of approx 25mm either side. Last year, the iPass wouldn't go deep enough to pull the combine wheelings out of soft ground. I have a LD subsoiler, Topdown & plough if compaction is an issue. Point taken though.

I can't fault Mzuri as a firm in terms of support, I just need to reduce blackgrass germination at the point of drilling. The stone content of the soil rules out disc coulters - my neighbour has an Avatar & we demoed both Avatar & 750A last year. Both rode out over stones, reducing crop establishment which reduced yield & increased BG levels in the thinner bits.

 

[Alistair Nelson]

Have you looked at a Dale? 8m sprinters are a funny row width I think 270mm compared to a 6m but probably wrong check it out. You'd pull one on narrow points Metcalfe, Bourgault etc but is that too wider row spacing with a 12-19mm point? You won't go far wrong with a sabre tine and if weights an issue front tank? There's also the new Horsch not sure what its call a low disturbance type tined drill?

 

[Brisel]

Have you looked at a Dale? 8m sprinters are a funny row width I think 270mm compared to a 6m but probably wrong check it out. You'd pull one on narrow points Metcalfe, Bourgault etc but is that too wider row spacing with a 12-19mm point? You won't go far wrong with a sabre tine and if weights an issue front tank? There's also the new Horsch not sure what its call a low disturbance type tined drill?

There is much to admire about the Dale. Very flexible row spacing and lots of space for trash to flow through the frame. It will take a lot of time to adjust though!

I agree about the leg spacing on the Sprinter. Over 25 cm is too wide IMO especially as we grow lots of spring barley. I hosted a BG trial where the narrower row spaced drills had less BG in them. I'd feel obliged to buy an inter row hoe too! A SW Sprinter is an enormous beast & I have my doubt about manoeuvrability in small fields.

 

[Renaultman]

What about the Simtech? Granted you have to go slow to avoid soil disturbance but so far so good with ours.

 

[Brisel]

What about the Simtech? Granted you have to go slow to avoid soil disturbance but so far so good with ours.

I should have looked harder at the T Sem. Does yours cope with chopped straw?

 

[BenAdamsAgri]

If we get the FETF grant will be getting the new megant to go alongside the avatar, will let you know how we get on @Brisel

 

[sjt01]

I'm currently looking at tine drill options as our strip till system is making our blackgrass problems worse - to the point that blackgrass levels are dictating cropping & cultivation policy. What I need is a tine drill that can cope with brashy stone, and be capable of sowing into unmoved stubble, lightly cultivated (Carrier), deep cultivated (Topdown) and ploughed/worked down. Soil types vary from light brash to clay. Field sizes are small, which favours a mounted drill. 250 and 290 hp available. Circa 2000 acres/year so it needs to be 6m+ wide. The current favourites are the Horsch Sprinter, Kuhn Megant and Weaving Sabre. The FETF grant distorts the market here, which makes a second hand machine uncompetitive, so the logical choice is a new grant eligible machine for 2025, assuming the ere will be another grant window.

Sprinter - long, heavy but lots of aftermarket tine options Bourgault/Metcalfe/Dutch. Can you vary row spacing much?
Megant - the newer design with 12mm points. Is it a no till drill??? The cheapest and lightest weight option here, if it will withstand the punishment of no till.
Sabre Tine - certainly a no till drill & capable of running in cultivated ground too. Heavy and probably new only.

Am I better with an 8m machine pulled at a forward speed 1/3 less than the equivalent 6m? The main idea is to disturb less soil at the point of drilling which should mean less blackgrass emerging in the crop. Stale seedbeds, delayed drilling, spring cropping, higher seed rates and all the other tools for blackgrass control are being deployed, though rotational ploughing is the next step. The Sabre Tine has the possibility of wider row spacing which could reduce power requirement. 16.6cm, 20 cm or 25 cm. Are there wider row spacing options for the Sprinter & Megant?

Will I be able to pull an 8m Sprinter with a 7290R 290hp tractor? The land is gently undulating and it's not what you'd call seriously heavy clay. The Megant is 6m only & I've little doubt power would be a problem here.

We had a KV cultivator converted to Weaving Sabre tines by @Bob lincs . We have now swapped the legs for Metcalfe ones, and find that although the Metcalfe ones are dearer, we get far longer life out of them on our abrasive flinty soils, especially the seed tubes. With 4 well spaced rows of tines we find it clears trash well, even a small heap of run down maize stalks.

 

[Renaultman]

I should have looked harder at the T Sem. Does yours cope with chopped straw?

It worked ok last year, but we struggled a bit 2022, but that was long stubbles, it also doesn't like bean straw.

 

[DieselRob]

I pull a 6m sabre tine (steel tank) with a 215r on rolling hills with varying soil types, I have put winter beans in 4” deep in to clay with with it at 6/8kph. Very impressive capability dealing with drilling in to trash/green cover

Sprinter would be too wide row spacing for weed competition I’d say? Also cumbersome in small fields?

Is the Megeant a true direct drill? I don’t think it would be up to doing what the sabre is capable of.

@Flintstone is/was running a sabre tine for delayed low disturbance drilling due to BG I believe as well

 

[Brisel]

If we get the FETF grant will be getting the new megant to go alongside the avatar, will let you know how we get on @Brisel

Have you had a demo of the Megant? I've got a few fallow fields to try some out before harvest. We have a Megant, but the older design with backward facing 1" wide tines.

 

[Hammer]

I’d recommend giving a Virkar consideration- I bought the first new one in the UK 4 years ago and have been happy with it. Extended it from 6m to 7m a couple of years ago to enable a nice steady rate.

 

[Brisel]

I’d recommend giving a Virkar consideration- I bought the first new one in the UK 4 years ago and have been happy with it. Extended it from 6m to 7m a couple of years ago to enable a nice steady rate.

Is there anyone from Samagri still in TFF? @Vitu ?

 

[cosmagedon]

How about a mounted Sprinter SL, 6m wide 250mm row spacings https://www.horsch.com/en/products/seeding-technology/3-point-seeding-technology/sprinter-sl

 

[alomy75]

How about a mounted Sprinter SL, 6m wide 250mm row spacings https://www.horsch.com/en/products/seeding-technology/3-point-seeding-technology/sprinter-sl

I got all excited about this drill. Until I you-tubed it. It’s very wibbly wobbly…
IMO if you’re drilling with a tine you either need a packer or to roll afterwards. For me I’d always have a packer to save a pass and also for consistent depth. Which would limit my choice to the Amazone cayenne or sprinter with metcalfes. I pull 4m with 180hp just nicely so @Brisel your 290hp may struggle with an 8m if you have hills and were drilling beans for example. I’d have a 6m in a flash though in your predicament. The dale/vaderstad seedhawk would be worthy of a look, but lots of moving parts/potential for ‘slap’ (sideways wear) I suspect would put me off

 

[DieselRob]

I got all excited about this drill. Until I you-tubed it. It’s very wibbly wobbly…
IMO if you’re drilling with a tine you either need a packer or to roll afterwards. For me I’d always have a packer to save a pass and also for consistent depth. Which would limit my choice to the Amazone cayenne or sprinter with metcalfes. I pull 4m with 180hp just nicely so @Brisel your 290hp may struggle with an 8m if you have hills and were drilling beans for example. I’d have a 6m in a flash though in your predicament. The dale/vaderstad seedhawk would be worthy of a look, but lots of moving parts/potential for ‘slap’ (sideways wear) I suspect would put me off

I really liked the Cayena when I demo’ed it but the crop struggled due to the ribbed tyre compacting the seed zone too much. It was very typical soil conditions for an early October demo in to Sandy loam which I never envisaged to be an issue but the result was disappointing. I made the decision that the drilling and rolling should be 2 separate passes after that

Edit to add some evidence, off google maps where the whole world can see it the field was subsoiled then in with the Cayena, the 2 dark strips were combi drilled for a comparison

 

[cquick]

I know I mention it often, but the Amazone Primera is definitely the drill for the job here. I pull 6m on some very steep slopes with 160hp. I can literally freewheel down the hills with this drill.
Very low disturbance even at 10k+, easily covers 100ac a day, excellent trash clearance, independent tines, very low wearing parts cost, surprisingly cheap to buy.
My only gripe is that you often have to follow with a roller. The newer designs may be better for this though.

 

[alomy75]

I really liked the Cayena when I demo’ed it but the crop struggled due to the ribbed tyre compacting the seed zone too much. It was very typical soil conditions for an early October demo in to Sandy loam which I never envisaged to be an issue but the result was disappointing. I made the decision that the drilling and rolling should be 2 separate passes after that

Edit to add some evidence, off google maps where the whole world can see it the field was subsoiled then in with the Cayena, the 2 dark strips were combi drilled for a comparison

Wowsers! I haven’t got any sand at all but I imagine the self-compacting nature of sands doesn’t help?

 

[Badshot]

Kv tineseeder now offer a narrow point too.